Peterborough Commuter Rail

[CDL.TO]

Yeah, two for Blue 22 and the same single track for GO service.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I was watching the speedo one time over the engineer's shoulder on a midday run once. We were doing 79 MPH on approach to Weston Station

If you have a portable GPS, you can clock the speed yourself whenever you ride the train.

 

[unimaginative2]

Yeah, two for Blue 22 and the same single track for GO service.

Are you sure about that? That's not in any of the reports I've read. They all indicate that the tracks will be shared equally by GO, VIA and blue22. The third track will be used by blue22 and VIA trains to pass the GO trains.

 

[RedRocket191]

Are you sure about that? That's not in any of the reports I've read. They all indicate that the tracks will be shared equally by GO, VIA and blue22. The third track will be used by blue22 and VIA trains to pass the GO trains.

I think he was being sarcastic..

 

[adma]

The station is at Millwood and Village Station Road. As far as I know, it's still there. I think the only other station may be Claremont.

Is Leaside Station there, or did it go AWOL? I think there was once a 40s/50s brick building or something.

Otherwise, t/w the end, I dunno how "stationey" a lot of the Peterboro line stations were, as opposed to being mere trackside whistlestops...

 

[drum118]

Is Leaside Station there, or did it go AWOL? I think there was once a 40s/50s brick building or something.

Otherwise, t/w the end, I dunno how "stationey" a lot of the Peterboro line stations were, as opposed to being mere trackside whistlestops...

Still standing and only one of a few remaining ones in Toronto sad to say.

You can gain access to it with no problem.

 

[JasonParis]

I've just decided, I'm riding my bike there this summer!

 

[RedRocket191]

The station that currently sits on the site was opened in 1946, replacing a station that dated back to 1894. It's modern design is very unique in the GTA. There are power lines nearby, and it sorta looks like a transformer building. That could by why you missed it.

Here's some pictures.

 

[andomano]

is there any literature available about the 'old peterborough run'?

I've tried looking on transit toronto and on google but have come up blank

 

[CDL.TO]

Are you sure about that? That's not in any of the reports I've read. They all indicate that the tracks will be shared equally by GO, VIA and blue22. The third track will be used by blue22 and VIA trains to pass the GO trains.

I think he was being sarcastic..

I wasn't being sarcastic, I really am under the impression that the plan was for separate tracks for Blue 22. And the plan for GO was for it to get its own two tracks in the future (making 4 in total), but was separate and not part of the Blue 22 plans.

 

[waterloowarrior]

Flaherty's train catches his officials off guard
Cost undefined, Finance spokeswoman says

JEFF GRAY AND STEVEN CHASE

From Friday's Globe and Mail

February 29, 2008 at 4:00 AM EST

TORONTO, OTTAWA — Finance Minister Jim Flaherty's surprise pledge to run train service from Toronto to Peterborough, Ont. - on a route through his riding - may have been included in the federal budget, but his department still could not say yesterday how much it will cost, how many passengers it might carry, or who will operate it.

"The final cost of the specific project ... has not yet been defined," spokeswoman Nathalie Gauthier said in an e-mail. "Details regarding this project, including the service provider, will be decided in the future."

But critics say the idea will be very costly, requiring large subsidies to carry a comparatively small number of passengers. And they point out it does not appear on Ontario's multibillion-dollar list of priority public-transit projects across the Toronto region that are already awaiting funding.

The plan to revive passenger rail service along tracks owned by Canadian Pacific Railway Ltd. from Toronto's central Union Station to Peterborough - closed by Via Rail in 1990 - has been championed by Peterborough's Conservative MP, Dean Del Mastro, and was welcomed by local leaders.

A document he compiled himself last summer estimated the needed track upgrades at $150-million and predicted slightly more than 900 passengers a day. But now it appears Ottawa has a rosier view of things. A federal official speaking yesterday on condition of anonymity said the total cost of the project may be $105-million, and Mr. Del Mastro said the 900 passenger forecast was only a "preliminary" figure that may be low.

"There has always been a business case for it. There continues to be a business case for it," he said. "It will be of enormous benefit to Toronto, to the GTA, to Durham region, to Peterborough and the Kawarthas."

Mr. Del Mastro said the revival of the railway is the result of a continuing lobby since 1999 when his Liberal predecessor advocated the service, and the Liberal government of the day promised it. He said yesterday he pitched the current government on the idea. "I actually put a proposal together. I put a package together."

Mr. Del Mastro would not say whether Via Rail would operate the service, but said more details would be announced soon. The federal budget says that any project must have a "public beneficiary" come forward by March 31 in order to qualify for money from a $500-million transit trust fund.

Despite Mr. Del Mastro's enthusiasm, some appear to have doubts about the wisdom of the project and expressed surprise it would be included in a federal budget. Ontario Transportation Minister Jim Bradley and his officials said they were not consulted and that the project was news to them.

There have been repeated calls for more transit service out of Peterborough. But a 2006 study by GO Transit, the provincial Crown agency that serves Toronto-area regional commuters, concluded that even a much less expensive proposal to expand bus service between Toronto and Peterborough wasn't worth the trouble, would attract few riders and would only cover 30 per cent of its costs. (Normal GO service recovers 86 per cent of its costs from riders.) Estimating 125 to 275 riders a day, the GO report concludes the number of commuters coming from Peterborough to Toronto is "relatively small" and "future growth is anticipated to be low."

Serving commuters to the eastern fringes of Toronto proper, such as Whitby or Oshawa, would be impractical because "these trips are dispersed and more difficult to serve with transit."

GO Transit chairman Peter Smith said he knew nothing other than what he had read in the media about the attempt to revive the rail service and that GO Transit has not been approached to run it. He warned any such train service would be massively expensive, perhaps costing as much as $180-million to upgrade the tracks, and requiring large operating subsidies.

"Who is going to pay the subsidy? Oh, it's huge," Mr. Smith said, though he was unable to provide an estimate.

He said GO and provincial officials hope to meet soon with their federal counterparts to get more details about the proposal.

He added that GO actually does plan to look again at whether Peterborough could be served by buses, perhaps running to a GO train station at Bowmanville after expansion on the busy Lakeshore East rail line takes place.

Mr. Del Mastro rejected the idea that the line will require subsidies to operate: "Not according to my report, no."

Speaking to reporters yesterday, Mr. Flaherty laughed off the cost and ridership projections from his own backbencher's report.

"I don't know where you get your numbers from, 900 and $140-million. I don't know where you get those from," he said.

The Finance Minister also denied that politics played any role in the project, which not only benefits Mr. Del Mastro, who narrowly defeated a Liberal candidate in 2006, but also goes through the riding of Mr. Flaherty's wife, Christine Elliott, who represents Whitby-Ajax for the Ontario Progressive Conservatives in the provincial legislature.

"I didn't look at the ridings, to tell you the truth," he said.

Mr. Flaherty said the project will take "hundreds of thousands" of car trips off the region's highways. "The area north and east of the city of Toronto is growing rapidly," he said. "This is one of the most rapidly growing areas not only in Canada but also in North America."

Local politicians along the line welcomed the plan. Oshawa Mayor John Gray said residents in the north end of his city would be the most likely to use the proposed line.

"It may get people out of their cars but I wouldn't want to put a number to it. It adds to the commuter choice," he said.

Durham regional chairman Roger Anderson said the proposed train line would pick up commuters from his region and from York Region before arriving at Union Station.

"Anything that alleviates congestion in downtown Toronto is a good thing," he said.

With reports from Jennifer Lewington and Brent Jang

1. AJAX-PICKERING
Federal Election Liberal PC NDP Green Other
2006 49% 33% 13% 4% 1%
2007 50% 34% 8% 7% 1%

2. WHITBY-OSHAWA
Federal Election Liberal PC NDP Green Other
2006 39% 44% 13% 4% 1%
2007 36% 44% 11% 7% 2%

3. DURHAM
Federal Election Liberal PC NDP Green Other
2006 30% 47% 17% 5% 1%
2007 32% 47% 12% 9%

4. HALIBURTON-KAWARTHA LAKES-BROCK
Federal Election Liberal PC NDP Green Other
2006 29% 49% 17% 5%
2007 29% 50% 12% 7% 2%

5. PETERBOROUGH
Federal Election Liberal PC NDP Green Other
2006 32% 36% 26% 5% 1%
2007 26% 48% 17% 9% 1%

SOURCE: ELECTIONS CANADA, ELECTIONS ONTARIO

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...n29/BNStory/National/home?cid=al_gam_mostview

also an article by Jeff Gray
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080229.TRAINDIGEST29/TPStory/National

SERVICE REVIVAL NEWS TO ONTARIO OFFICIALS

JEFF GRAY

February 29, 2008

The idea of reviving train service from Toronto to Peterborough, while not new, caught Ontario provincial transportation officials completely off guard.

It does not appear in the long list of Toronto-area projects pledged by Premier Dalton McGuinty last year as part of a $17.5-billion public-transit program called MoveOntario 2020, which includes light rail in Toronto and elsewhere, new bus lines and major GO Transit rail improvements.

And it has not been on the radar at the new Metrolinx regional planning body, governed by a board of local politicians, that has been working on a master plan for Toronto-area transit. In fact, different plans for the freight rail line owned by Canadian Pacific that would be used for Finance Minister Jim Flaherty's promised rail service are sketched out in the province's long-range plans in MoveOntario 2020.

This so-far unfunded project, explained Peter Smith, chairman of GO Transit, Ontario's commuter rail agency, would involve putting GO Trains on the same Canadian Pacific line eyed for Peterborough service out to Seaton, Ont., which is expected to undergo major growth in the coming years.

Under the province's current long-range plans, Peterborough might only get an express bus down to a newly expanded Lakeshore East rail line station at Bowmanville, Ont., he said.

Toronto Mayor David Miller and officials at the Toronto Transit Commission were clearly unimpressed that the federal government chose to pour money into a rail line to Peterborough instead of committing to the Toronto region's other priorities, such as the city's planned $6-billion light-rail expansion, which will draw many more commuters out of their cars.

The rail line to Peterborough - cancelled by VIA Rail in 1990, with a return repeatedly promised by various governments since - was included in Mr. Flaherty's budget speech this week.

It was listed as one of the projects to benefit from a new $500-million public transit trust set up with surplus federal funds.

Local politicians in Peterborough - as well as the town's Trent University - have warmly welcomed the idea, as have mayors in other communities along the proposed route, arguing it will reduce growing traffic congestion.

 

[hoodlum]

Part of the Peterborough rail line was included in the MoveOntario announcements.

http://www.premier.gov.on.ca/news/Product.asp?ProductID=1385

16. New GO rail line on the Havelock line from Agincourt to Pickering



Stops are also planned for Markham.

 

[RedRocket191]

Welcome to UT! How's life in Cornell?

Yes. That line is designed to serve Seaton and the Pickering Airport, should it ever be built.

My first preference would be to run the train line down the 35/115 corridor to meet the lakeshore line.

Most of the land in north durham is greenbelted anyway.

But here's something interesting:

Word on the street is that CP has been looking at rebuilding their northern main line that is currently torn up between Havelock and Perth, ON. Some are suggesting that this upgrade is government help with that project.

 

[MisterF]

The Feds provided funding in 2003 to start speeding up that trip - but the Nimby's in Weston have tied that up so badly, it could be years before even the first phase of improvements are started.

Are you talking about the funding that Paul Martin cancelled as soon as he took over, and that the conservatives reinstated a couple months ago? That had nothing to do with Weston. The Weston opposition was to Blue22, and to any rail project that would close streets crossing the tracks. Any intercity rail improvements that preserve access from one side to the other would probably see no opposition. Ditto for an airport link that would serve neighbourhoods on the way to downtown.

The Kitchener train is pretty terrible and needs some serious improvement. One time I took the train to London through Kitchener. It's slow, bumpy, and loud. The only reason I took it is because I missed the faster train through Aldershot...because the Greyhound from Peterborough was stuck in traffic.

There have been repeated calls for more transit service out of Peterborough. But a 2006 study by GO Transit, the provincial Crown agency that serves Toronto-area regional commuters, concluded that even a much less expensive proposal to expand bus service between Toronto and Peterborough wasn't worth the trouble, would attract few riders and would only cover 30 per cent of its costs. (Normal GO service recovers 86 per cent of its costs from riders.) Estimating 125 to 275 riders a day, the GO report concludes the number of commuters coming from Peterborough to Toronto is "relatively small" and "future growth is anticipated to be low."

Well of course a bus service would attract a lot fewer riders, for the same reason a streetcar line attracts more riders even if it's not any faster than the previous bus. Rail attracts more riders. Not to mention a bus to the Oshawa GO station, then GO train downtown would probably take twice as long a VIA train the whole way. If the track is improved, flag stops eliminated, and the ride is faster and smoother than the previous VIA line, ridership and financial performance will be vastly improved. Only in North America would the viability of a 120 km rail line to a metro of 117,000 be in doubt.

Word on the street is that CP has been looking at rebuilding their northern main line that is currently torn up between Havelock and Perth, ON. Some are suggesting that this upgrade is government help with that project.

Any more details on that? Is it even owned by CP anymore? It might make sense if CP traffic is growing. Traffic on their lakeshore line is contrained because it's only one track. Maybe it's cheaper for them to rebuild the northern mainline than double tracking the existing line.

 

[ShonTron]

I heard that rumour too about the Havelock-Glen Tay section, but I'm not that optimistic, though I think it is a great idea.