Peterborough Commuter Rail

[innsertnamehere]

I know YDHR has had issues getting into Union before, I remember reading somewhere that they have tried several times. They run a train down to Unionville on the weekends every once and a while, but thats about as far as they get.

as for an all day route, this would be a very bad idea. Lindsay and Port Perry are small towns that are too far out to have many commuters heading into the city, especially Lindsay. Peterborough is a bit bigger, but similarly doesn't really have many commuting patterns into the city to justify it.

Additionally, the part of the city it runs through before exiting the GTA is largely already well served by the Stouffville line. There are only a few potential stops like in Box Grove and Leaside.

 

[ShonTron]

The only way that I could see it working would be if it routed through Kitchener and Stratford and terminated in Goderich.

Even then, Goderich is pretty small. Nice idea (Personally, I wish there was more train service in Ontario), but I think it's unrealistic in the near-future.

Let's focus on improving rail service between Toronto and London via Stratford from two round trips. I'd like to see connecting buses between Stratford and Goderich, stopping at Mitchell, Seaforth, and Clinton. The GEXR rails would need significant upgrades.

 

[nfitz]

Agreed. There's not even bus service for most of these types of towns anymore. Maybe a Gray Coach-like provincial service is in order.

 

[MisterF]

for an all day route, this would be a very bad idea. Lindsay and Port Perry are small towns that are too far out to have many commuters heading into the city, especially Lindsay. Peterborough is a bit bigger, but similarly doesn't really have many commuting patterns into the city to justify it.

Peterborough has 4 times the population of Lindsay and 10 times the population of Port Perry. It's more than "a bit" bigger. Peterborough's commuting patterns are more focused on Durham Region than downtown. A rail spur connecting to Oshawa would be a better idea, IMO.

Agreed. There's not even bus service for most of these types of towns anymore. Maybe a Gray Coach-like provincial service is in order.

To Peterborough? GO and Greyhound run 17 daily buses each direction between them.

 

[wopchop]

To Peterborough? GO and Greyhound run 17 daily buses each direction between them.

I believe that he meant Goderich.

 

[nfitz]

To Peterborough? GO and Greyhound run 17 daily buses each direction between them.

No, I meant all the cities that no longer have ANY inter-city bus or train service. Cities like St. Thomas, Owen Sound, Goderich, Orangeville, Welland, Midland, etc. (I'm not sure if all of these have no service, but they've all had very major cuts in recent years).

Or long-standing bus routes that have completely vanished, such as Guelph to Hamilton.

 

[MisterF]

Ah I see. Yeah it seems odd to not have any buses between Guelph and Hamilton. You'd think there'd be enough demand to justify some sort of service.

For small, far away towns like Goderich the business case for private service is likely not there. The government would have to run buses at a loss. GO buses do serve Orangeville, and Welland is served by Niagara Region Transit.

 

[nfitz]

GO buses do serve Orangeville, and Welland is served by Niagara Region Transit.

The old Gray Coach Orangeville to Owen Sound service is gone though. And the Welland to London service. Some portion of these routes may have been picked up by transit, but not most of the routes.

 

[ssiguy2]

You can't even get to St.Thomas from London on a transit bus yet the cities actual border each other and St.Thomas with 41,000 has a large London commuter population.

 

[ShonTron]

The old Gray Coach Orangeville to Owen Sound service is gone though. And the Welland to London service. Some portion of these routes may have been picked up by transit, but not most of the routes.

There used to be a Highway 3 service between Niagara and London, serving many small towns and cities like St. Thomas, Tillsonburg, Delhi and Simcoe. Cities without any bus service today.

Of course many intercity bus services not serving large centres or university towns will lose money. But so does the highway and country road systems. The elimination of so much rail trackage in Southern Ontario just adds even more wear and tear on the roads via increased truck traffic. I think that having a basic, subsidised bus system to get people where they're going should be provided on the roads mostly paid by general or property taxes that everyone pays for, but some can't use.

 

[nfitz]

Given that these routes were privately run until relatively recently, suggest that though there might not be much profit in it ... it wouldn't particularly cost massive amounts of money to run.

 

[mdrejhon]

A 3 hour excursion service to Union would certainly not be expensive to run.

A 1.5 hour commuter service would be super-expensive though -- since it's not possible with the current speed limits enforced on the railroad's state. (drum roll: a bona-fide magaproject)

 

[smallspy]

I know YDHR has had issues getting into Union before, I remember reading somewhere that they have tried several times. They run a train down to Unionville on the weekends every once and a while, but thats about as far as they get.

They've never had an issue operationally running down to Union, and have in fact run excursions to-and-from Union on at least 2 occasions.

The problem that they have now is that all of their train crews need to be CTC-certified, and as of right now they've only got two guys that are.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Allandale25]

This was also posted in the VIA Rail thread but I thought it should go here as well. There is a brief mention of Peterborough and the railway in this article:

By Jason Bain, The Peterborough Examiner

Thursday, August 4, 2016 1:43:29 EDT AM

Leal says Via Rail interested in restoring service in Peterborough area

Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs Minister and Peterborough MPP Jeff Leal was on hand at Wednesday's council meeting to provide brief updates on the 2016 provincial budget and Shining Waters Railway, among other topics.

He met with Via Rail officials last week, who are “very interested” in both passenger and freight service in the Toronto and Peterborough areas, he said. A potential public-private partnership could see the company taking and building on the work done by the Shining Waters Railway group.

Leal said he could say little more because of commercial confidentiality agreements.

Gerow encouraged more transparency regarding the project, noting the planned expansion of Nephton's Unimin Canada plant, which relies on freight rail through Havelock-Belmont-Methuen Township. “Let's talk about it and get it done.”

Coun. Scott McFadden, a former county representative on the railway committee, said the public wants to learn what will happen with the deteriorating railway bridge over County Rd. 10 in Cavan Monaghan Township, for example. “Everyone is asking about it.”

Leal said the province has said as much as it can and has funded studies, adding the project has a “four-year window of obsolescence.”

As for the budget, the province made changes based on input like that the minister of agriculture, food and rural affairs has gleaned from talks with locals, he said.

 

[dowlingm]

It seems to me that a lot of the hassle associated with Peterborough rail (starting with Don Branch rehab and Agincourt Yard bypass) would be sidestepped by using the upgraded Stouffville line to get as far as Mount Joy, and then split off east (7-9km depending on routing) to join the CP west of Claremont. That does put even more pressure on the Union-Scarborough Junction LSE section, of course.