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Peterborough Commuter Rail

With the construction of 407 now extending east to the 115, car and bus travel to Toronto will be even more competitive in the future. Peterborough would be best served by connecting a GO bus to the proposed Courtice Road GO station.
The government really does stack the deck against rail service by building freeways first. Even in this era of massive rail investment, driving still enjoys a privileged position compared to the rest of the world.

It would probably be cheaper to build 20 km of new rail next to the 418 than to build the commonly shown route. That would cut the amount of upgraded CP line in half and avoid the problems of rail yards in Scarborough and that bridge over the Don. It would attract far more riders that way too.
 
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It would probably be cheaper to build 20 km of new rail next to the 418 than to build the commonly shown route. That would cut the amount of upgraded CP line in half and avoid the problems of rail yards in Scarborough and that bridge over the Don. It would attract far more riders that way too.

Good point. Such route will be slightly less direct, but can serve a lot more riders boarding at the Lakeshore East stations.
 
I feel like there are some parallels with this: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitch...-study-was-rushed-ahead-of-election-1.2866591

Exclusive Ontario high-speed rail study was rushed ahead of election
Consultants calls Toronto-Kitchener-London line 'unusually easy'

Apparently Michael Schabas relied on dated Google Earth images, and 'We did in 2 weeks what normally take 3-4 months, at a considerably higher [cost].'

On the whole, I don't think rail to Peterborough or beyond is really viable. But it's an interesting discussion, and I believe the Don Branch through the valley would be fixed up for this. And it also keeps hope alive for people in that part of the province. Similarly in SW ON, I know some in London who seem to think HSR is coming any day now.



Hm. I may’ve been wrong about saying this "excursion" train was in the 2000s. That’s when the photo was added, but apparently it was taken in '97. And if I’m reading the post correctly, and getting my bearings from that photo, I believe the train is in fact on the Nephton Sub somewhere northwest of Havelock. Also, the remarks in the post say: "GO 531 leads a special Havelock-Blue Mountain excursion train on the freight-only CPR Nephton Sub."

Looks to be taken from here:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.4391...m4!1e1!3m2!1s4y5rV7rJ3GFEQuz3h1diNA!2e0?hl=en
edit: maybe that's not where the photo was taken. This seems more like it:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.4591...m4!1e1!3m2!1srDvExjo98k8tUp1Vr2XIRA!2e0?hl=en

The two stories are very similar. Same kind of backscratching going on through incumbent ridings, as well as exorbitant costs for unknown and low demand.

re: the photo, I just assumed they were either testing the car or switching it.
 
The government really does stack the deck against rail service by building freeways first. Even in this era of massive rail investment, driving still enjoys a privileged position compared to the rest of the world.

It would probably be cheaper to build 20 km of new rail next to the 418 than to build the commonly shown route. That would cut the amount of upgraded CP line in half and avoid the problems of rail yards in Scarborough and that bridge over the Don. It would attract far more riders that way too.
Seems like an idea worth exploring. Given that Pickering - Oshawa is only about an hour driving from Peterborough, there are probably a lot more people commuting to jobs in that area than in downtown Toronto.
 
Seems like an idea worth exploring. Given that Pickering - Oshawa is only about an hour driving from Peterborough, there are probably a lot more people commuting to jobs in that area than in downtown Toronto.

Sorry. The problemmatic section of this line runs all the way east to the Tapley line. And you have the Ganaraska Forest to skirt, and some pretty hilly terrain. The most advantageous point to tie into the CP Belleville Sub is northeast of Bowmanville, where the CP line is at its most northerly point. But a connection east of Pontypool still leaves you upgrading some pretty bad track alignment east of Pontypool.

I very much like the general policy idea of roughing rail row into the median of new expressways, but the 407 extension is likely too far along in its design to make that possible here. The 407 extension does have a transitway planned - BRT, I assume. Express coaches will likely do fine in the general traffic lanes.

The cost of a new rail line here probably approaches the cost of giving every Peterboro resident a free bus pass,for life, and running hourly bus service down both the 115/35 and across the 407 to Finch Subway or York U. Rail is just a dream here.

- Paul
 
The two stories are very similar. Same kind of backscratching going on through incumbent ridings, as well as exorbitant costs for unknown and low demand.

re: the photo, I just assumed they were either testing the car or switching it.
I think London-Kitchener-Toronto GO HSR service is far more viable than Peterborough GO service. Post-construction HSR to Kitchener-London will be more of a political success with actual popularity. That study was rushed, but now they are doing a new, more proper multiyear study that arrives around the time of next Ontario government election.
http://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2014/12/ontario-moving-forward-with-high-speed-rail.html

This environmental assessment will be far more comprehensive than any high speed rail study ever financed by Ontario, and with Ontario being the funding source, and previous Ontario government talk of commuter fares on Ontario HSR, this becomes a defacto GO high speed train, like how a lot of French do daily commutes on TGVs and Japan on their shinkansens. Skeptics abound, regardless, this is still relatively a far more comprehensive study without a rushed deadline.

HSR, once pie in sky, now finally feels potentially realistically within my lifetime, finally. It is slowly on its way to being done incrementally. Georgetown corridor grade separation (mostly done). Electrifation. GO RER Bramalea. ION LRT. Hurontario LRT connection. Union gets greater capacity post revitalization and resignalling upgrades. New Kitchener station. UPX profitable at $50M+/year, paying off its capital before 2025. Announce Full grade separation to Kitchener. GO RER EMU 160kph-180kph-200kph Kitchener (goes full speed only in some sections beyond Pearson). Popularity soars when Kitchener goes to 1hr instead of 2hr. Finally, HSR construction announced. GO expresses replaced with GO HSR trains, now that it became popular enough by late 2020s. London straight arrow HSR corridor under construction 2030s, Guelph bypass route for fast the HSR expresses, guelph through for the semiexpresses. UPX becomes 20-30 years old by HSR operation. time for its own upgrade. UPX Replaced with London-Kitchener-Pearson-Toronto with the old UPX spur extending an upgraded LINK train to Woodbine Racetrack HSR station. (HSR express to Pearson takes over UPX original purpose). Go RER takes over Weston and Bloor for allstops to Kitchener. GO Express trains reassigned to be handled by HSR semiexpresses. HSR semiexpresses London-Guelph-Kitchener-Brampton-Pearson-Toronto, and HSR expresses London-Kitchener-Toronto. Metrolinx HSR commuter service become profitable 2040s (twice population as today) recovering full farebox (based on G8 precedent on their flagship HSR routes).

This is a more realistic 30 year plan than Peterborough GO. Libs say 10year, but double or triple that, and then it is more realistic. The current Kitchener corridor talk points sort of approximately in this direction. Assuming these rail happy governments keep coming back often enough. We are the only G8 without a HSR yet, and now we have Ontario spending 13.5bn on GO RER. It is not impossible that a future GO RER II (2030+) involving yet another double-digit billion, involves a Metrolinx operated HSR.

Look at what is happening in Kitchener corridor. upgrades, upgrades, upgrades! Electricifation! Stuff Done & future!
Look at what is happening in Kitchener. Transit upgrades, new rail station, ION LRT, etc.
Look at what Ontario is doing. GO RER. 13.5 billion to Metrolinx services. Union revitalization. New multi-year HSR EA.
Look at what is not happening in the Peterborough rail corridor.
Look at recent Ontario funded rail actual shovels-in-ground track record (Union, ECLRT, Lakeshore 30min, Georgetown corridor work even if full potential delayed thru 2017, UPX airport train).
Look at what Ontario might announce as next stage after GO RER if they deliver (even if 5 years late)
Demand will be there by 2040s, after 25years of growth. (Spend on HSR rather than a couple new freeway lanes)

It may not happen but it is no longer pie in sky for London-Kitchener-Toronto Metrolinx GO HSR by 2030s or even 2040s. Far better than a 25 percent chance now. And becomes economically feasible when you consider serviced regions outside Toronto will have potentially boomed to twice the size or more in thirty years, the unaffordability of Toronto and improved transit (over the next couple decades) in outer cities kicking off booms in nearby cities over the coming years and decades.

It is gradually making more sense as the continual corridor upgrades make it politically easier to introduce HSR. HSR economic precedent is really good for the London-Kitchener-Pearson-Toronto population densities projected into the 2030-2040s, so there is no reason to dismiss this yet, especially as gradual commuter train speedups are already working its way to Kitchener over the coming decade or two. Eventually, large numbers board all day trains in transit-improved Kitchener, and finally, HSR construction launches as part of a major mobility expansion when it becomes politically easier (in the future era) than a freeway expansion. As an example.

Unlike Peterbrorigh, actual money is already being spent on important steps towards HSR. All the grade separation that occured and the coming electricifation in the Georgetown section of the Kitchener corridor. By 2017, trains will move significantly faster in this corridor (after delays on this), and by mid 2020s, electric trains will run. And inevitably to spread outwards as future phases until HSR simply becomes a mere step in this gradual progress.
 
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Latest article here and text below.

Shining Waters Railway proposal still being evaluated by federal, provincial governments; decision not expected until after federal election 0
1297285804818_AUTHOR_PHOTO.jpg

By Jason Bain, The Peterborough Examiner

Wednesday, July 15, 2015 12:52:27 EDT AM

Shining Waters Railway is in a holding pattern with a decision on whether or not passenger rail service will return to Peterborough now not expected until after October's federal election, board president Tony Smith said Tuesday.

"We're entering election mode now ... I think we just have to bide our time," he said. "Not much is going to happen until after the election, which is disappointing."

The proposal is still being evaluated by the provincial and federal governments, both of which must grant approval in order for the project to move forward.

The group had anticipated a decision in May or June. Unfortunately, these kind of projects tend to be put on the "back burner" when election time comes rolling around, Smith said.

"I'm extremely disappointed," he said.

The passenger and freight train service on the railway line between Toronto and Havelock had been the vision of former MP Dean Del Mastro. After his resignation in November, Haliburton-Kawartha Lakes-Brock MP Conservative MP Barry Devolin took over championing the cause.

Shining Waters' board of directors has satisfied all of its obligations by submitting all of the required documents, such as a comprehensive engineering study, that are needed for officials to make a regulatory decision, Smith said.

The board brought Premier Kathleen Wynne up to speed on the proposal when she visited the city in May, he said, adding how it has communicated regularly with Devolin.

The board, which meets every second month, encourages anyone who wishes to pen a letter of support to do so to Shining Waters care of the Peterborough Chamber of Commerce.

"There has been a tremendous amount of support from the community," Smith said.

It is unknown how the project, which was not mentioned in either government's budgets introduced in April, may or may not be impacted after Parliament voted against Bill C-640, which would have given Via Rail Canada protection with amendments to the Canada Transportation Act.

The private members bill would have granted passenger trains priority over freight trains, required Via to seek approval from Parliament before eliminating service routes and established a clear mandate for the company, according to New Democrat MP Philip Toone, who introduced it Feb. 20.

Studies have projected that there could be as many as 950 passengers in each direction with two trains to Toronto in the morning and two return trips in the evening, Monday to Friday plus reduced weekend services.

In July 2008, the federal government and province each committed as much as $150 million toward restoring the Havelock-Peterborough-Toronto commuter rail service.

An independent consulting firm hired by Metrolinx, a provincial transportation agency that oversees GO Transit, then pegged the cost of the commuter rail link to be at least $541 million in a report released in May 2010.

Del Mastro disputed some of the findings in the Metrolinx report before Shining Waters commissioned its own study, findings from which were released in January 2011.

That's when the former MP outlined his $233-million plan that included refurbishing the track, building or upgrading six train stations and platforms along the line, repairing bridges and buying rail cars. He asserted the railway would be running on Canada Day 2014.

The federal election is set for Oct. 19.

jason.bain@sunmedia.ca
 
If this works it may open up the possibility of other non-VIA and GO routes being reactivated. Imagine a rail service from Toronto to Goderich via Guelph.
 
Goderich? Metro Peterborough population about 120,000. Goderich is under 10,000. I can't see there ever being the numbers to support that.
 
The only way that I could see it working would be if it routed through Kitchener and Stratford and terminated in Goderich.

Even then, Goderich is pretty small. Nice idea (Personally, I wish there was more train service in Ontario), but I think it's unrealistic in the near-future.
 
I think this route could actually be viable as GO rail all day frequent service. Peterborough is a decent size city and home to Trent University. The line would be a great cross Metro connector and, if GO buses were properly coordinated, would also get a significant amount of traffic from Lindsay and Port Perry. As GO the line should terminate at Peterborough.

Certainly not every train would have to go as far as Peterborough as many could short turn but as peak hour and limited off=peak and weekend service, I actually think it could be quite viable.
 
If somebody else (e.g. a favourable Federal govt) ponies up the fund to refurbish the tracks for general use... then anything can happen.

Suddenly, it's much cheaper for GO to run an occasional train to Peterborough. And Shining Time too.

Excursion/tourist style railways might even come all the way to Union occasionally. That would be a rather interesting sight to see, if Ontario allows that.

Though, the shabby condition of the rail is currently the showstopper for any rolling stock carrying passengers, taxiing so slowly over creaky rail and gateless grade crossings, that it likely will take almost three hours today... The condition is worse now than when the last "special" GO train went there, taking almost forever. That's fine for a fun weekly excursion train, but not for a daily commuter... At least a hundred million dollars (bare minimum) of maintenance catchup is needed before trains can make it to Union in commuter-friendly timescales, probably. Now it is a matter of somebody ponying up that much dime...

Once the rail is gleaming, crossings protected, and legal speed limits are raised, thanks to that good Samartian, then all aboard! Then St Peterborough can easily at least begin seasonal status like Niagara, and expand from there based on demand.
 
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