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Parking - Catch All

Can't remember if I (or anyone else) has posted the new look, Green P pay-and-display machines.

I encountered one on Huron St. at U of T yesterday, August 7th, 2024:

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@HousingNowTO may wish to make note of the TPA's proposed parking rate changes and the perverse effects they have on a housing program for Toronto.


At the Oct 22nd Board Mtg, TPA had before it, the following proposed rate changes in 2025:

For On-Street (Pay and Display) Parking

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Lets stop for a moment and note the whopping .25c increase

Then lets consult the TPA's own report comparing its rate structure to other cities:

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So we're under-charging dramatically, and proposed to do squat-all about it!

This leads to artificially high demand for parking, it makes it more challenging to remove spaces for CafeTO, for exclusive Transit Lanes or Road diets..........

But it also does some other things......

The artificially low price of on-street parking forces down the rates of the off-street facilities.

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So let me get this right.........because we forego revenue with artificially low on-street parking rates, we have to lower the price at some off-street lots too?

That in turn has other curious effects.........for instance.....if you want to repurpose a low financial performing Green P lot that actually has high demand (but low prices), you get a conundrum. Opposition to the loss of spaces; but also
a financial performance so poor that you can't justify a new underground lot under a new housing development.

In many ways, its easier to redevelop a high-performing lot, because you can justify replacing the spaces; where you cannot for a low-performing lot.

But many lots a low performers, expressly because Green P under prices on-street parking........

Its a viscous circle and self-inflicted wound.

Contributing to this is the failure to charge for parking on more side streets in high demand areas, which would also drive better revenue from on-street and off-street lots and change the pro-formas to allow for underground parking.

Sigh!
 
So 21, 616 on street parking spots in the city in total. Do we know how many of these spots share a street with a TTC service and/or bike lanes? (Such as on Eglinton) Those spots I would easily say good bye to in favour of pedestrian, cyclist, TTC.

The prices are ridiculously low. You can spend more without even thinking about it on some sort of Harvest flavoured and sweetened chai froth and chilled concoction at Starbucks…..

It would be an investment, but spend on a system such as Montreals Parking Service App and introduce dynamic pricing, based on demand, competitive pricing. The electronic admin function could make spots unavailable at times to facilitate TTC or construction etc. Tie this into data available to parking officers and make it easier to nail offenders.
 
just east of the creek said:
So 21, 616 on street parking spots in the city in total. Do we know how many of these spots share a street with a TTC service and/or bike lanes? (Such as on Eglinton) Those spots I would easily say good bye to in favour of pedestrian, cyclist, TTC.

The prices are ridiculously low. You can spend more without even thinking about it on some sort of Harvest flavoured and sweetened chai froth and chilled concoction at Starbucks…..

It would be an investment, but spend on a system such as Montreals Parking Service App and introduce dynamic pricing, based on demand, competitive pricing. The electronic admin function could make spots unavailable at times to facilitate TTC or construction etc. Tie this into data available to parking officers and make it easier to nail offenders.
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In the core street on major streets has a rush hour ban (usually 2-3 hours for each peak) so you're going to have to charge less than a garage. For off peak times if you're staying 2 or 3 hours it's often cheaper just to go into a garage!

For comparison somewhere I park, green P is $6.50 an hour and charges until midnight. (used to be cheaper and free after $9)
An hour at the garage 5 metres away, it's $6 an hour, and you don't have to worry about a rush hour zone.

There already is a form of dynamic pricing, if you try to park in the green P lots at exhibition the rates are like $30 when there is an event in the area.

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turbanplanner said:
In the core street on major streets has a rush hour ban (usually 2-3 hours for each peak) so you're going to have to charge less than a garage. For off peak times if you're staying 2 or 3 hours it's often cheaper just to go into a garage!

For comparison somewhere I park, green P is $6.50 an hour and charges until midnight. (used to be cheaper and free after $9)
An hour at the garage 5 metres away, it's $6 an hour, and you don't have to worry about a rush hour zone.

There already is a form of dynamic pricing, if you try to park in the green P lots at exhibition the rates are like $30 when there is an event in the area.

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You missed the point.

The garage parking is too cheap, because the hourly, on-street parking is too cheap and too plentiful.

Cut the on-street spaces on major roads by 1/3, raise the price of the balance by 50%; begin charging for more side street spaces; the price of parking in the garage also jumps 50%, and the City banks more than 25M annually in net new revenue/profit, all while maintaining fewer spaces, getting traffic moving and finding room for cyclists, pedestrians and transit.
 
Northern Light said:
You missed the point.

The garage parking is too cheap, because the hourly, on-street parking is too cheap and too plentiful.

Cut the on-street spaces on major roads by 1/3, raise the price of the balance by 50%; begin charging for more side street spaces; the price of parking in the garage also jumps 50%, and the City banks more than 25M annually in net new revenue/profit, all while maintaining fewer spaces, getting traffic moving and finding room for cyclists, pedestrians and transit.
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I’m still voting Northern Light for Mayor.
 
Northern Light said:
You missed the point.

The garage parking is too cheap, because the hourly, on-street parking is too cheap and too plentiful.

Cut the on-street spaces on major roads by 1/3, raise the price of the balance by 50%; begin charging for more side street spaces; the price of parking in the garage also jumps 50%, and the City banks more than 25M annually in net new revenue/profit, all while maintaining fewer spaces, getting traffic moving and finding room for cyclists, pedestrians and transit.
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That is a fair point! I understand what you mean since the prices in theory should be tied together. I'm ok with cutting parking if it makes sense in the area, but how do you do that without affecting residents, as well as businesses?

Between *roughly* Parkside drive and Coxwell, a parking spot isn't a given in the south end of the city. How do you prevent "outsiders" from competing with residents for a place to park?

When it comes to the core, I rarely drive into downtown (preferring to use the GO) but the few times I have in the last 2 years there have been multiple times I've either had to park at the last floor of a multi story garage or the garage was totally full!
Is this because the garage owners are bad at their business and are leaving money on the table, or do people feel stretched and there's only so much you can charge for a night out (overall) that people vote with their feet.

I know this is a parking thread, but I feel like the best policy decision would be to mandate WFH 1 day a week for jobs where it's able as a massive amount of people commuting to the core daily don't need to.
 
I almost never drive downtown during the workday (just the odd occasion when I have something heavy to carry to/from my office), but I don't think there's ever a time I've driven downtown and struggled to find parking.

If the garage is full, it means they are charging too little, not that they are charging so much that people are canceling their plans to come downtown. They should charge more, and then you'd be able to find a spot every time. That would be the best policy, both for street parking and garage parking. Then let people decide for themselves when to drive downtown, rather than preventing them from doing it for an arbitrary number of days each week.
 
evandyk said:
I almost never drive downtown during the workday (just the odd occasion when I have something heavy to carry to/from my office), but I don't think there's ever a time I've driven downtown and struggled to find parking.

If the garage is full, it means they are charging too little, not that they are charging so much that people are canceling their plans to come downtown. They should charge more, and then you'd be able to find a spot every time. That would be the best policy, both for street parking and garage parking. Then let people decide for themselves when to drive downtown, rather than preventing them from doing it for an arbitrary number of days each week.
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I agree and prices have gone up over time but I'm still running into issues. My guess is at least for after hours people are only willing to pay a certain price. It would suck if the lots and restaurants etc get a big drop in business because people aren't willing to drive though traffic and pay $30 to park for 2 hours. Same reason I don't eat out as much, I'll pay $10 for a combo if I'm in a pinch but I'd rather pay the same for something like hello fresh if it goes up to $16

it's somewhat area dependent (this is my experience after hours btw) I think when you're closer to the office towers there are stupidly priced lots but those don't really compete with green p as most of the people inside are being compensated by work. You can't really use green p street parking for 9-5 as the price is either MORE than an underground lot or it has rush hour zones (and who finishes work at 2:30pm?)
 
turbanplanner said:
I'm ok with cutting parking if it makes sense in the area, but how do you do that without affecting residents, as well as businesses?
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You don't. Reducing parking supply and increasing the price/cost of parking will impact residents and businesses and that's desirable.

The issue is not one of being punitive in pricing, its managing the publicly owned and funded supply of parking in a manner to maximize revenue to the City; and to use any surplus lands that result for city-building purposes, be that cycle tracks/parklets or housing depending on whether we're discussing an on-street or off-street facility.

turbanplanner said:
Between *roughly* Parkside drive and Coxwell, a parking spot isn't a given in the south end of the city. How do you prevent "outsiders" from competing with residents for a place to park?
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Someone driving into the City, because they work here, or shop here is welcome to park.

That's not at issue. The issue is that they have to pay a fair market price for that privilege.

Permit parking already serves to reserve on-street spaces for residents overnight, and to the extent it could do a better job (more spaces closer to someone's front door) this would be best achieved by charging for non-permit holders during non-permit hours (daytimes) and by increasing the price of permit parking from a mere ~$1 per day to some outrageous amount.....like $3 per day (or about $90 per month)

turbanplanner said:
When it comes to the core, I rarely drive into downtown (preferring to use the GO) but the few times I have in the last 2 years there have been multiple times I've either had to park at the last floor of a multi story garage or the garage was totally full!
Is this because the garage owners are bad at their business and are leaving money on the table, or do people feel stretched and there's only so much you can charge for a night out (overall) that people vote with their feet.
Click to expand...

Green P often under-charges for parking, and is a competitor to private garages. This can induce under-pricing in the private facilities.

WFH/hybrid work arrangements have also complicated matters with much lower demand on typical Mondays and daytime Fridays, but much higher demand Tues-Thursday and daytimes on weekends.
 
Multiple threads could get this item, but I'll stick it here.

The TTC is moving with City support to close the Green P lot on Cedarvale (near Woodbine/Danforth) for a new Traction Power Sub Station for Line 2.


Seems straight forward enough.............but hold on.........

I'm flagging @HousingNowTO to keep an eye on this........because........

The City decided to close the other Green P lot on the opposite side of Danforth, on Amroth, in favour of new housing.

This move nixes the only remaining off-street lot close to the intersection.

I expect you may see both businesses and residents howling.

I think we may see impacts/delays to either Amroth or 985 Woodbine w/this move.

I have no great love for surface parking here; but the City can't seriously expect to avoid blow back when it closes all such parking, and there are already issues w/illegal on-street parking by people driving to Woodbine Station.

Right hand, meet left hand.........maybe you should all talk some time.
 
Northern Light said:
The City decided to close the other Green P lot on the opposite side of Danforth, on Amroth, in favour of new housing.

This move nixes the only remaining off-street lot close to the intersection.
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Those two Green P lots are going. But the biggest lot (the one closest to the station) is staying for now (though presumably will be impacted by the Weston redevelopment if that ever goes ahead).

The chuch that accompanied that Cedarvale lot is long gone. I guess we are going full circle here - perhaps they can build a structure above/aside the substation and restore housing to that lot.
 
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