Novel Coronavirus COVID-19 (nCoV-2019)

[innsertnamehere]

That happened to my coworker last Thursday. He almost got hauled off by Toronto Police unless he had his letter.

It they want people off the streets overnight they need to put a curfew in place.

What in the world would they even charge you with? There isn't a ban on travel.

REALITY CHECK: Police say they aren’t pulling over cars for coronavirus fines | Globalnews.ca

Social media rumours claim police are fining people in cars for defying coronavirus social distancing.

globalnews.ca

This article says those rumours are frankly bulls***.

 

[lenaitch]

That happened to my coworker last Thursday. He almost got hauled off by Toronto Police unless he had his letter.

It they want people off the streets overnight they need to put a curfew in place.

"Hauled off"? Ticketed yes, but I wasn't aware there is a power of arrest under the Ontario emergency legislation.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Maybe giving a date where some constraints will begin relaxing will help people see this through to the end without breaking social isolation. Easier to make decisions with a known timeline rather than an unknown one.

Honestly what I think people need right now is some form of hope - even if it is saying something like "we will begin permitting gatherings of under 10 people from different households in 2 weeks" would give people something to look forward to.

 

[Richard White]

"Hauled off"? Ticketed yes, but I wasn't aware there is a power of arrest under the Ontario emergency legislation.

Neither was I. From what I was told they were questioning why he was on the street so late during the pandemic.

For whatever reason they wanted to take him back to their station unless he could prove he was an essential worker.

 

[lenaitch]

Neither was I. From what I was told they were questioning why he was on the street so late during the pandemic.

For whatever reason they wanted to take him back to their station unless he could prove he was an essential worker.

Interesting. This, from the TPS website:

On March 31, 2020, the Government of Ontario made changes that require an individual to identify themselves at the request of a police officer, if there are reasonable grounds to believe the individual is violating an emergency order.​

These emergency orders include a prohibition on all organized public events or social gatherings of more than five people and the closure of the following establishments:​

• All facilities providing indoor recreational programs​
• All public libraries​
• All private schools as defined in the Education Act​
• All licensed child care centres​
• All bars and restaurants, except to the extent that such facilities provide takeout food and delivery​
• All theatres including those offering live performances of music, dance, and other art forms, as well as cinemas that show movies​
• Concert venues​
• All City-owned playgrounds, sports fields, basketball and tennis courts, off-leash dog parks, skateboard and BMX parks, picnic areas, outdoor exercise equipment and other parks amenities, as well as parking lots attached to its parks system, will be closed effective immediately.​

City of Toronto staff continue to lead with monitoring and providing information and education to non-compliant individuals and businesses. The Toronto Police Service will also conduct proactive enforcement, when necessary. This includes visiting establishments that have not complied with the provincial directive and, under each circumstance, using officer discretion to determine the proper action.​

There are various options of enforcement, ranging in severity from a $750 ticket to a summons, which upon conviction can result in fines from $100,000 for individuals to $10 million for businesses, to arrests and criminal charges of Obstruct Police.​

You are required to identify yourself once the officer has reasonable grounds to lay a charge so the officer can properly issue you a ticket or summons, whichever they deem necessary.​

So it seems that if you are found in violations of a specific order (which I don't believe simply driving or walking around is) and you fail to identify yourself you could be arrested for Obstruct Police (criminal). I can find no arrest authority for violating an order itself, and if what you are doing doesn't violate an order, then a charge of Obstruction would be invalid.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Neither was I. From what I was told they were questioning why he was on the street so late during the pandemic.

For whatever reason they wanted to take him back to their station unless he could prove he was an essential worker.

sounds like a power tripping cop and not actual government policy to me.

The TPS needs to be extra careful relaying what cops can and cannot do right now. "great power comes with great responsibility" is especially true right now with the police afforded essentially police state levels of control.

 

[PinkLucy]

Yup. I’d say this is probably the most stressful time of my life. I’ve never had to stress about so many different things at the same time. I think any longer and people will be in some serious mental trouble if not already. I hope they think about this when extending lockouts indefinitely. People aren’t going to stay locked up in their condo shoe box for months with no plan or resolution in sight.

It’s extremely stressful, and I think that both the mental and physical health implications of this are going to be felt for years to come.

 

[picard102]

That's exactly it. I am currently attempting (with some level of futility) to plan a vacation for later in the year post-pandemic and it would help to know what their thought process is.

ProTip: Plan your vacation for 2021. It's about as essential as a haircut.

 

[Richard White]

ProTip: Plan your vacation for 2021. It's about as essential as a haircut.

Coincidentally I am thinking Brazil which is better in January.

Carnival!

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

It’s extremely stressful, and I think that both the mental and physical health implications of this are going to be felt for years to come.

Not a cakewalk, but the alternative of mass deaths is far, far worse - and this isn't even close to real war-time restrictions.

Coincidentally I am thinking Brazil which is better in January.

Carnival!

That sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

AoD

 

[PinkLucy]

I totally agree. And I get that restrictions are annoying, and things aren't "normal", but this is what we've got right now. They didn't call off WW2 because people didn't like the restrictions they were under. And the longer we try to flout the restrictions, the longer this is likely to last and/or the stricter the restrictions will become.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I totally agree. And I get that restrictions are annoying, and things aren't "normal", but this is what we've got right now. They didn't call off WW2 because people didn't like the restrictions they were under.

I think this event is a good opportunity for individuals and society to reflect and reconsider our priorities and re-calibrate itself to such ends.

AoD

 

[Northern Light]

Article on how many of the nations most successful in tackling Covid are led women.

What Do Countries With The Best Coronavirus Responses Have In Common? Women Leaders

From Iceland to Taiwan and from Germany to New Zealand, women are stepping up to show the world how to manage a messy patch for our human family.

www.forbes.com

All due credit to the leaders in question; I don't wonder if the societies that elected them deserve much of the credit. In most cases they are progressive, have some form of PR for elections, and are high-education jurisdictions.

Britain has had 2 female leaders that I would argue were bad for that country and utterly regressive. Which is why I draw the distinction. Britain is a relatively low-education country with an FPTP style of election, that tends to elect a different, lesser,
kind of leader, irrespective of sex.

 

[Northern Light]

I think this event is a good opportunity for individuals and society to reflect and reconsider our priorities and re-calibrate itself to such ends.

AoD

There are a long list of changes I'd love to see; but if we were looking very rigidly at the Covid lens and picking priorities:

1) Fix Long-Term Care, by mandating private rooms (which clearly saves lives and reduces contagion) and mandating staff work at only one LTC facility, meaning the vast majority of employment in LTC must be Full-time.

2) Mandate a substantial number of paid personal days for all workers, at least 7 (10 job-secure); so that when people or their families are ill, they stay home.


In the case of #1, fully 50% of all Covid deaths in Canada have been in Long-Term Care homes.

A clear result of not having followed the science of contagion for a long time (hospitals in Ontario have been mandated to shift to private rooms for more than a decade); while LTC are only mandated to go down to 2 per room by 2024.

The bad outbreak in Bobcaygeon was in a facility with 4 to a room. Seven Oaks in Toronto is mostly 2 to a room (less severe, but still worse than it needed to be)

 

[PinkLucy]

Trudeau just announced that returning travellers (are there still some) must present a valid quarantine plan, and if they don't, they'll be quarantined in a hotel.