Moose Rail (National Capital Region)

[Allandale25]

Cabinet throwing out the order to repair a neglected part of a line would probably look really bad given the current Omnitrax situation.

It's also interesting to note that the city has put out an RFQ for the bridge.

That's some kind of progress.

Edit: Here it is.

Just a precautionary move? Something to present as evidence in terms of the cost and time to repair the bridge?

 

[OCCheetos]

Just a precautionary move? Something to present as evidence in terms of the cost and time to repair the bridge?

Sure, but if they end up losing the case then they can just turn around and use those designs for the actual repairs. It's something that'll have to be done in any case I guess.

 

[steveintoronto]

Sure, but if they end up losing the case then they can just turn around and use those designs for the actual repairs. It's something that'll have to be done in any case I guess.

Or real counsel instead of the PR department has advised the City that at least the *appearance* of compliance with the CTA Orders is the minimum necessary to not be held in contempt.

Decision No. 272-R-2013
July 17, 2013

APPLICATION by the Canadian National Railway Company pursuant to subsection 33(4) of the Canada Transportation Act, S.C., 1996, c. 10, as amended.

[...]
[20] The Federal Court of Appeal (FCA) examined the status of an order of an administrative tribunal that becomes an order of the Federal Court in Canada (Canadian Human Rights Commission) v. Warman (2011 FCA 297) (Warman). There, the FCA found that the order of an administrative tribunal, once filed for registration with the Federal Court under the provisions of the Act, remains an order of an administrative tribunal despite being filed with the Federal Court for enforcement:

In my view, the issue raised in this appeal turns on the registration provision set out in section 57 of the Act, and in particular whether the order enforced under the authority of that provision is the order of the Tribunal or the order of the Court.

The answer to that question is relatively straightforward when one considers that the only order being enforced under this scheme is that of the Tribunal and that there is to-day no legal principle that restricts the use of contempt powers to orders issued by superior Courts.

[…] in the present case, there is only one order – the Tribunal order – which is enforced by the Federal Court pursuant to section 57 as though it was an order of that Court. This intent is best reflected by the French text according to which: “les ordonnances rendues en vertu des articles 53 et 54 […] peuvent […] être assimilées aux ordonnances rendues par celle-ci [i.e., la Cour fédérale]. ”
[...]

https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/272-r-2013

 

[Joseph Potvin]

Moose Consortium Inc. has posted online several documents relating to the Canadian Transportation Agency's determination relating to the track connecting Ottawa and Gatineau.
https://www.letsgomoose.ca/moose-co...rotect-essential-railways-in-canadas-capital/

Joseph Potvin
Director General | Directeur général
Moose Consortium (Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems & Enterprises) | www.letsgomoose.com
Consortium Moose (Mobilité Outaouais-Ottawa: Systèmes & Enterprises) | www.onyvamoose.com
joseph.potvin@letsgomoose.com
joseph.potvin@onyvamoose.com

 

[steveintoronto]

Just noticed these up at the Moose lodge:

MOOSE IN THE MEDIA IN 2018
Candidate Clive Doucet's "Capital Regional Rail" jives with MOOSE's plan!

EN - September 2018 - 580 CFRA - Clive Doucet launches mayoral campaign with promise of regional rail service, lower transit fares
EN - September 2018 - Ottawa Citizen - Reevely: If Ottawa wants a big shift to transit, Clive Doucet has a plan for it
EN - September 2018 - Ottawa Matters - Mayoral candidate Doucet announces rival public transportation plan

 

[mdrejhon]

This does look very similar to MOOSE (albiet slightly different).

That said, I oppose Doucet's plan to halt Stage2 LRT, amongst other things. Just a brief read, and I think he's a nonstarter.

 

[kEiThZ]

Doucet is Rob Ford of Ottawa.

Screw that moronic plan. He's running for mayor of Ottawa and pitching to scrap Stage 2 meant to cover over a quarter million residents who pay taxes in Ottawa in preference of building transit to Limoges (3000) , Smiths Falls (9000) and Chelsea (7500), a town in another province.

This is not even cancelling one project in a city for another (like preferring the SSE to the DRL). This is like a Toronto mayoral candidate proposing the cancelling of the DRL to build GO trains to Lindsay and Orangeville instead.

 

[ShonTron]

That's a shame. Clive Doucet has a reputation as a writer and a downtown lefty, so I don't get his plan for exurban commuter rail. He's not the Rob Ford of Ottawa, he's a leftist populist with a few wacky ideas.

 

[gweed123]

Doucet claimed during the election 4 years ago that he would cancel the Confederation Line plan if elected, build LRT from Kanata to Orleans via surface tracks along Laurier (really? Laurier?) through downtown. Oh, and he would have it all built in 4 years! (Despite having zero consultation or design work done on it)

Glad to see he's just as out to lunch as he was 4 years ago, although I was hoping the last election would be the last we heard from him.

 

[kEiThZ]

That's a shame. Clive Doucet has a reputation as a writer and a downtown lefty, so I don't get his plan for exurban commuter rail. He's not the Rob Ford of Ottawa, he's a leftist populist with a few wacky ideas.

He's rather anti-intensification. And apparently has been for most of his career. I don't like the "downtown elite" stereotype usually. But this guy fits it to a tee.

"Let's build trains to tiny towns 50 km away so the poors stop trying to live in our neighbourhoods with their towers."

 

[mdrejhon]

It's too bad really, because a more proper densification-minded European commuter rail system would actually be good for Ottawa --

One that is pro-LRT, pro-densification.

Over the months and years, it is pretty clear that none of the people who have made proposals thus far...None seem to have the right densification-friendly plan. Cherrypicked elements More useful to everybody of all classes, and connecting nodes that have good densification potentials -- rather than suburban park-n-rides.

That said, I think Ottawa needs to further LRT-ify (Phase 3 and possibly Phase 4) before proper Euro style commuter rail seems to be justifiable. It will help if VIA HFR gets built, which will start to also attract commuters along the HFR route -- then this concept can be extended (via a new entity, perhaps) to additional routes as brand new cost-effective commuter train that's an intermediate between VIA HFR and OCTranspo LRT, and might only be able to transfer at certain node stations rather than trying to share the Bayview LRT corridor (unless that corridor is fully twinned and electrified and precision tight-headway signalling system)

In the meantime, something needs be done to preserve the disused railroad corridors, so they can be used as future corridors for LRT or Euro-style commuter rail or HFR style service that doubles as a GO service. They may not be justifiable now, but some are eventually good corridors for.

I feel that once Phase 2 LRT buildout is complete, and we are talking up Phase 3, is when we finally can plan a realistic sustainable commuter rail system for Ottawa. Ottawa's population will be finally feeling the potential of an European style system, and will be more amenable then to realistic plans.

Aka government-owned with reasonable farebox return -- like most good Canadian transit systems -- for a regional commuter rail system for Ottawa.

 

[OCCheetos]

In the meantime, something needs be done to preserve the disused railroad corridors, so they can be used as future corridors for LRT or Euro-style commuter rail or HFR style service that doubles as a GO service. They may not be justifiable now, but some are eventually good corridors for.

Unfortunately, a lot of the "ideal" rail corridors were abandoned over 50 years ago and are now unusable (the downtown station, the Sussex spur corridor, the 417 corridor, etc).

That said, the remaining rail corridors in the area probably aren't going to be going anywhere anytime soon.

Two (or three, counting Chelsea) are now recreational paths
VIA's corridor is solid
The spur to Arnprior still receives minimal, but regular use (and the corridor is city-owned)
The Prescott corridor is city-owned and will be partially used for Stage 2
The tracks along the Rapibus corridor were deliberately left by the STO (supposedly to appease MOOSE)
The track heading East out of Gatineau are still in use by the QGRY
Tracks still go up to Chelsea, and then turns into a trail

The only one out is the Beachburg sub corridor. AFAIK there hasn't been anyone interested in doing anything with it so far. It isn't protected in anyway, but no one wants to use it for anything yet (other than for rail).

 

[gweed123]

Unfortunately, a lot of the "ideal" rail corridors were abandoned over 50 years ago and are now unusable (the downtown station, the Sussex spur corridor, the 417 corridor, etc).

That said, the remaining rail corridors in the area probably aren't going to be going anywhere anytime soon.

Two (or three, counting Chelsea) are now recreational paths
VIA's corridor is solid
The spur to Arnprior still receives minimal, but regular use (and the corridor is city-owned)
The Prescott corridor is city-owned and will be partially used for Stage 2
The tracks along the Rapibus corridor were deliberately left by the STO (supposedly to appease MOOSE)
The track heading East out of Gatineau are still in use by the QGRY
Tracks still go up to Chelsea, and then turns into a trail

The only one out is the Beachburg sub corridor. AFAIK there hasn't been anyone interested in doing anything with it so far. It isn't protected in anyway, but no one wants to use it for anything yet (other than for rail).

The one I think has the greatest potential in the immediate future is the corridor running from Bells Corners to Stittsville. It's been converted to a rail trail, but I could see a potential Trillium-style line running along that corridor, terminating at either Bayshore (requiring a short tunnel to get under the 416-417 interchange), or continuing along the sub that runs E-W through Nepean, connecting to the LRT just north of Knoxdale (which would require a 1 or 2 stop extension from Baseline).

Kanata South is growing like crazy, and I don't think the 417 alignment that is currently proposed will really do that area much good. Using that corridor can bring the train right into the middle of Stittsville, which would also open up the opportunity to re-use that beautiful old train station.

 

[Allandale25]

I seem to remember the Moose proponents promoting the deal referenced below in this thread a few months ago. Big investigative article in the Star on this company. The below passage in the article is relevant for this thread:

Outside of real estate, LeMine’s other undelivered promises include a billion-dollar trade deal to send Canadian canola to China and a commitment to invest in a private rail project in Ottawa. Neither materialized. Liu said the canola deal fell apart because the Canadian government did not get a required import certificate from China. The director of the Ottawa rail project said he and his staff declined to work with Liu after reviewing his company.

 

[OCCheetos]

CN has announced changes to their 3-year plan which could see them pulling all freight service out of the Ottawa region.

https://pub-ucpr.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=88

This includes the Renfrew Spur which MOOSE would use (although it isn't clear if CN would tear up the tracks like they did with the Beachburg sub. They're much less valuable).

Correction: The Renfrew Spur is owned by Nylene Canada (the company which the track serves) but CN would abandon the section of track between Wass junction and Nepean junction which is where the Renfrew spur used to split off the old Beachburg sub.