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Moose Rail (National Capital Region)

Would this even require discontinuance? The bridge will still be used as a railway. Gatineau will need to acquire a certificate of fitness to operate their LRT across the bridge (or hand operation over to Capital Railway, but that's unlikely..)

Because this wouldn't require discontinuance, this probably wouldn't do anything to stop MOOSE. They'd just have to negotiate with another party.
 
^ Is that your personal view that the reason Ottawa didn't follow the proper discontinuance process or has there been any media report that points to that as a factor? I didn't see it referenced in the Ottawa City Legal's submission to the CTA on the rationale for their actions and defense. (Also, not sure why the CMA would be relevant if one of the main issues was at Bayview in the City of Ottawa, outside of Gatineau.)
As per my signature, everything I write on this forum is my personal opinion. I strongly suggest you to tone down your aggressive tone if you expect a response to your questions...
 
^ I wasn't intending it to be aggressive at all. I don't live in the Ottawa Region so I was honestly wondering if there was an media editorial/article/column that criticized/reported on the City for the situation with the CTA and I had missed it. It's hard to follow all of the details of a transit debate in another part of the province. Thanks for clarifying.
 
Would this even require discontinuance? The bridge will still be used as a railway. Gatineau will need to acquire a certificate of fitness to operate their LRT across the bridge (or hand operation over to Capital Railway, but that's unlikely..)

Because this wouldn't require discontinuance, this probably wouldn't do anything to stop MOOSE. They'd just have to negotiate with another party.

I suppose, but I wonder how the single track bridge would work with the frequencies Gatineau would like to see and what Moose wants to do.
 
^ I wasn't intending it to be aggressive at all. I don't live in the Ottawa Region so I was honestly wondering if there was an media editorial/article/column that criticized/reported on the City for the situation with the CTA and I had missed it. It's hard to follow all of the details of a transit debate in another part of the province. Thanks for clarifying.
Don’t take my word, take the word of the CTA:

“[2] For the reasons set out below, the Agency finds that the City has discontinued the operation of a portion of its ORL without complying with the mandatory discontinuance process set out in Division V of the CTA, and orders the City to either:

  1. Take the steps necessary to restore the ORL, including the Prince of Wales Bridge (POW Bridge), to a point where it could be made operable within 12 months of an Agency order pursuant to Division IV of the CTA; or,
  2. Initiate and complete the discontinuance process established in Division V of the CTA.”
https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/r-2018-23
 
^ Thanks. I remember reading that part. Will be interesting to see what happens next.
Okay, I'm very surprised you didn't remember this non-significant detail, but l take your initial post as genuine curiosity: I referred to the CMA to use a geographic entity which contains both Ottawa and Gatineau, as it remains to be seen whether the municipal public servants north of the river are more familiar with the applicable laws and legal procedures than they are on the south of it...
 
Okay, I'm very surprised you didn't remember this non-significant detail, but l take your initial post as genuine curiosity: I referred to the CMA to use a geographic entity which contains both Ottawa and Gatineau, as it remains to be seen whether the municipal public servants north of the river are more familiar with the applicable laws and legal procedures than they are on the south of it...

I remember the decision, I just didn't necessarily interpret it the same way your comment was written: "apparent shortage of municipal staff in the Ottawa CMA which knows how to file an application for discontinuance of a ROW with the CTA". I also remember reading the Ottawa Legal opinion at the time and that they took further steps after this. I was also genuinely curious if there was other commentary out there that shared your view.
 
I suppose, but I wonder how the single track bridge would work with the frequencies Gatineau would like to see and what Moose wants to do.
Single track at end of a route works fine for frequent service -- that is how Trillium operates now. Single track with now-frequent service. Although Trillium will soon be twinned, the crossing train can hold at Bayview while waiting for the returning Gatineau train.

I think 5-7min headway is doable without twinning the bridge, as long as it is only a 1 stop hop.

I assume the Trillium O-Train could be extended north by 1 stop to interchange with the Gatineau LRT network.
 
Looks like Gatineau wants to use the Prince of Wales Bridge for LRT. Sorry Moose. Image from this tweet (the reporter has sent out a few more since this image).

2M8gpPz

In my opinion this is the better use of the PoW bridge. Also, a disused grade separated route seems to exist on the Ottawa side of the Alexandra bridge that runs along but above the Rideau Canal, away from the road that could link up well with the Ottawa LRT station. I scouted it today as I am in Ottawa. Anyways interesting development!
 
The Alexandra Bridge was originally a rail bridge that connected the Ottawa Station with Hull by way of a tunnel under Wellington. The tunnel was used as space for the Canadian Museum of Contemporary Photography until it shut down a number of years ago (accessed by a pavilian next to the Chateau Laurier). I'm not sure what it's used for now.
 
As far as I can remember Stephen Harper turned it into government meeting rooms. Around the time he killed the Portrait Gallery. You know, as part of his quest to stop Canadians from committing culture.
 
Maybe that bridge gets used for both.
The point made many times here, and quoting the pertinent Acts and the CTA decisions supports exactly that. Until it is abandoned and not petitioned for use by any others wishing to use it, buy it, or continue to run heavy rail over it, it is now, and will remain to be, available for use by any recognized certifiable entity by the CTA for use. And others under the same legislation can petition to share it. If that has a monetary consequence for the primary user/owner, compensation is also addressed in the Transportation and the Relocation and Crossing Acts.

Also, a disused grade separated route seems to exist on the Ottawa side of the Alexandra bridge that runs along but above the Rideau Canal, away from the road that could link up well with the Ottawa LRT station.
That is covered in Paul's link:
[...]
Connections with Ottawa’s LRT are paramount, he said. The plan so far calls for two crossings of the river: on the Alexandra and Prince of Wales bridges, in order to link with the LRT at the east and west ends of Ottawa’s core.

He called the exact locations of the crossings a “delicate” point, but said these two bridges “are extremely interesting” from Gatineau’s point of view, giving access to the Rideau Centre and to the Bayview station and Tunney’s Pasture.

Pedneaud-Jobin said he has been in extensive discussions with Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson, “and we both agree that we have to have a system that is as much as possible fully integrated” into Ottawa.

Discussions about who will pay to fix the Prince of Wales Bridge must wait, he said. “What we presented is a vision for the future. We know that this discussion is going to be very important between the two cities and the two other governments.

“We are not making Gatineau stronger with this project; we are making the whole region stronger and that gives responsibilities to all levels of government.”
[...]
http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/gatineau-reveals-its-plan-for-light-rail-subject-to-changes

It is entirely possible that the Feds take possession of the bridge, either through acting as agents for the NCC, or Transport Canada, and compensate the City of Ottawa for their purchase price to allow OC Transpo (Capital Railways) to further invest in bringing their connections up to legal requirements to allow the bridge(s) to continue to perform their legal status without further cat fights.

The bridge(s), by Law, are open to any CTA recognized (certified) user as per the Acts mentioned.

A private transit company can petition to use Metrolinx heavy rail tracks if they make a bona-fide case before the CTA and offer suitable compensation for shared costs, and not only that, if deemed appropriate, the Feds are also indicated as having to pay a share if it is deemed by the CTA as in the Nation's interest.

Any ruling by the CTA can be appealed to them, Superior Court, or the Transport Minister (ostensibly via the Lieutenant Governor)(the Crown).

A company may *own* a bridge, track or RoW, it doesn't mean that regulation doesn't apply too for federally regulated railways, and any that cross a provincial border are federally regulated.
 
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