Montréal Transit Developments

[CityStay]

In what way?

I'm not sure if you're asking about the Toronto direction or Berlin. I'll assume Berlin.
Berlin has more transit than all Canadian cities combined, and I mean ALL CANADIAN CITIES COMBINED, that's how much we suck.
I love that you can go to furthest suburbs, even outside the city, 24/7.
I love the near endless street wall of 4-6 storeys.
I love that you can buy/consume alcohol virtually anywhere, at any time and that bars can stay open as long as they like.
I love that prostitution is legal and that the workers are covered under German labour law.
I love the architecture both old and new. (don't quote me but 99% of the investorboxes in Toronto probably wouldn't pass Berlin code..)
I love the 200 or so museums and places that commemorate its rather tortured history.
I love the fact that it's the capital of Germany and therefore the de facto capital of Europe..
I love Berliners, they're not the friendliest people - they generally despise contrived friendliness - you have to prove yourself worthy.. and I like that!
I do hope that Germany will come around on the pot legalization, maybe an E.U. thing?
But the transit. Fifty years of constant Toronto or Montreal transit expansion will never even come close to where Berlin is today, never mind where Berlin is going tomorrow.
Just sit back and think about that for a minute - if every back of napkin transit proposal made in Toronto over the last 50 years had have been implemented and be running today it would still not nearly approach the level of transit that they have in Berlin right now.
Just sit back and think about that.
It's like comparing a 1st world nation to a developing nation.
Toronto could have all of its fantasy map transit proposals built and running right now and still be a million miles behind Berlin.
Like I told my friends "Returning to Canada from Germany was like returning to the Flintstones from the Jetsons".
I stand by that.


.

 

[CityStay]

TBH, I'll always love this city, but I can say that there is a certain managerial myopia in Toronto's civic image, that extends from transit planning to things like basic park maintenance. Even the current mayor, John Tory, is the epitome of that line of thinking.

Plus a city like Montreal has 'bigger' bones than Toronto (not an insult), which is the product of its existence as the nation's primate city for its elites during most of the 19th-20th centuries. Berlin, no doubt, more so.

Furthermore, moving to a new city allows you to dissociate yourself from the local politics/issues (aka the 'fresh start'), which you only really pick up on after living there for awhile. People can falsely get the 'grass is always greener' mentality, which is how you get the spiteful expatriate individuals, who are absolutely PITAs to deal with, being far worse than the locals. I remember there was one such individual on the SSP forums (Habsfanman) who was absolutely obnoxious, and shat up every thread with his sanctimonious anti-Toronto screeds.

That being said, Toronto is moving ahead! Just not as much as much we'd like it to.

Well that's interesting.
But what if you have actually lived in a number or cities (as an adult) and have actually had the opportunity to compare one to the other and therefore, can't help but.. you know, make a comparison?
What then?
I mean, even if you're from Toronto it doesn't take much expat living to realize that it doesn't really excel in any particular area whatsoever.
That it's one of those 'meh' kind of follower cities.
And ugly.
And you don't realize this until you bop around a bit.
But Torontonians will be offended when it has been revealed that their latest 'pilot project' has been standard practice in 25 other 'World Klass' cities for over 25 years..
After making it seem as if it's the "greatest Toronto innovation ever - one separated bike lane!"
You really do have to see it from afar to realize what a farce it all is.
*I apologize to skyline warriors to whom this cannot possibly make any sense whatsoever.
To the World's 200th tallest Sooopertall woot woot!

 

[Northern Light]

I'm not sure if you're asking about the Toronto direction or Berlin. I'll assume Berlin.
Berlin has more transit than all Canadian cities combined, and I mean ALL CANADIAN CITIES COMBINED, that's how much we suck.
I love that you can go to furthest suburbs, even outside the city, 24/7.
I love the near endless street wall of 4-6 storeys.
I love that you can buy/consume alcohol virtually anywhere, at any time and that bars can stay open as long as they like.
I love that prostitution is legal and that the workers are covered under German labour law.
I love the architecture both old and new. (don't quote me but 99% of the investorboxes in Toronto probably wouldn't pass Berlin code..)
I love the 200 or so museums and places that commemorate its rather tortured history.
I love the fact that it's the capital of Germany and therefore the de facto capital of Europe..
I love Berliners, they're not the friendliest people - they generally despise contrived friendliness - you have to prove yourself worthy.. and I like that!
I do hope that Germany will come around on the pot legalization, maybe an E.U. thing?
But the transit. Fifty years of constant Toronto or Montreal transit expansion will never even come close to where Berlin is today, never mind where Berlin is going tomorrow.
Just sit back and think about that for a minute - if every back of napkin transit proposal made in Toronto over the last 50 years had have been implemented and be running today it would still not nearly approach the level of transit that they have in Berlin right now.
Just sit back and think about that.
It's like comparing a 1st world nation to a developing nation.
Toronto could have all of its fantasy map transit proposals built and running right now and still be a million miles behind Berlin.
Like I told my friends "Returning to Canada from Germany was like returning to the Flintstones from the Jetsons".
I stand by that.


.

I begrudge noone their preferences; quite enjoy Montreal; would find much to commend in Berlin; and do more than my share of critiquing Toronto........

But I find this kind of screed rather obnoxious.

Its blind cheerleading of one City...........and complete bashing of another that betrays a mean-ness of spirit and a sense of close-mindedness in which one's mind was made up and then you went looking for the evidence that justifies that position.

****

Your statement on transit is amusingly preposterous.

Assuming we compare U-Bahn w/TTC, the former is 1.89x larger by line km.
Assuming we compare S-Bahn to GO Transit, the latter is larger 452km vs 331km

Clearly, the level of service on S-Bahn is leagues better than what's in place today on GO

Though that gap will close substantially in the next few years; but will remain.

Also no question that overnight transit is better in Berlin. (24-hour S-Bahn, 24-hour U-Bahn on weekends); though worth saying the TTC subway runs later on weeknights than does U-Bahn.

I value the more liberal policies on alcohol as well.

****

But lets also note, Berlin is far less diverse than Toronto; and its culinary scene is a total snooze. Apologies to the Germans, but their food is barely a level above British.

Also........while we're talking Liberalized policy..........you can actually shop and do stuff on a Sunday in Toronto; where most of Berlin is closed.

Jetsons to Flinstones........and all.........Germans seem to think clothes dryers are a luxury for the rich............in part because their electricity prices still make ours look cheap. (they average around 30c per KW hour vs 12'ish here).

Tap water is also 5x more expensive in Berlin

But yes, their cellphone plans are way cheaper.

Germany also didn't get around to legalizing gay marriage til 2017, some 12 years after Canada.

Still hasn't legalized pot.

****

Toronto can and should be better at any number of things.

Berlin is better than Toronto at many things.

Toronto is better than Berlin at many things

Berlin could improve in a number of ways.

***

To sum up, I have no problem with saying good things about Berlin, or Montreal or any number of cities around the world; and I would love to see Toronto extend last call, offer better architecture, reduce income inequality, and dramatically improve transit amongst a host of other things.

But can we please leave blind cheerleading and bashing somewhere else?

 

[SFO-YYZ]

Kindly remind us, why are we talking about Berlin again? I fail to see how a discussion on the REM somehow got derailed to Berlin vs. Canadian cities.

Full disclosure: I have also worked in Berlin for a number of years and really like the city - the pace of life, the transit, the COL, the general size of the city. But I fail to see how talking about Berlin has anything to do with the present topic - which is Montreal transit developments aka the REM and other metro/LRT extensions in Montreal. I also fail to see how repetitively saying xyz city is insufficient compared to abc city will somehow help improve xyz city in any material manner. I've also moved around the world enough to realize that the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

 

[kEiThZ]

Does anyone know what the status is of the REM Trudeau-Dorval extension?

 

[blacksquirrels]

I begrudge noone their preferences; quite enjoy Montreal; would find much to commend in Berlin; and do more than my share of critiquing Toronto........

But I find this kind of screed rather obnoxious.

Its blind cheerleading of one City...........and complete bashing of another that betrays a mean-ness of spirit and a sense of close-mindedness in which one's mind was made up and then you went looking for the evidence that justifies that position.

****

Your statement on transit is amusingly preposterous.

Assuming we compare U-Bahn w/TTC, the former is 1.89x larger by line km.
Assuming we compare S-Bahn to GO Transit, the latter is larger 452km vs 331km

Clearly, the level of service on S-Bahn is leagues better than what's in place today on GO

Though that gap will close substantially in the next few years; but will remain.

Also no question that overnight transit is better in Berlin. (24-hour S-Bahn, 24-hour U-Bahn on weekends); though worth saying the TTC subway runs later on weeknights than does U-Bahn.

I value the more liberal policies on alcohol as well.

****

But lets also note, Berlin is far less diverse than Toronto; and its culinary scene is a total snooze. Apologies to the Germans, but their food is barely a level above British.

Also........while we're talking Liberalized policy..........you can actually shop and do stuff on a Sunday in Toronto; where most of Berlin is closed.

Jetsons to Flinstones........and all.........Germans seem to think clothes dryers are a luxury for the rich............in part because their electricity prices still make ours look cheap. (they average around 30c per KW hour vs 12'ish here).

Tap water is also 5x more expensive in Berlin

But yes, their cellphone plans are way cheaper.

Germany also didn't get around to legalizing gay marriage til 2017, some 12 years after Canada.

Still hasn't legalized pot.

****

Toronto can and should be better at any number of things.

Berlin is better than Toronto at many things.

Toronto is better than Berlin at many things

Berlin could improve in a number of ways.

***

To sum up, I have no problem with saying good things about Berlin, or Montreal or any number of cities around the world; and I would love to see Toronto extend last call, offer better architecture, reduce income inequality, and dramatically improve transit amongst a host of other things.

But can we please leave blind cheerleading and bashing somewhere else?

Some pretty valid points. I'm from Toronto and also lived many years in all three cities. They're all great in their own way. Toronto definitely has more of corporate culture.

Anyways back on topic. It would be really easy to turn GO into something that resembles the S-bahn, but I don't there's enough political motivation to get there. The S-Bahn is powered by third rail to the best of my knowledge and optimizes pre-existing rail corridors. Last I heard they're talking about all these half ass solutions to electrifying GO. They can't even get beyond EA's and community consultations here, where NIMBY's try to halt anything that would see the city maximize it's potential, cause you know property values are whatever dilution they have. Politicians just pretend to want to expand transit, it's all posturing for votes. Honestly it's too depressing to think about. This isn't changing in my lifetime and I'm only in my 30s. I appreciate your optimism, but GO service will never come close to comparing to Berlin's S-Bahn. Not terms of service or fair integration. Never happening. Ever. If so it already would have. Hope I'm wrong though.

 

[Northern Light]

Some pretty valid points. I'm from Toronto and also lived many years in all three cities. They're all great in their own way. Toronto definitely has more of corporate culture.

Anyways back on topic. It would be really easy to turn GO into something that resembles the S-bahn, but I don't there's enough political motivation to get there. The S-Bahn is powered by third rail to the best of my knowledge and optimizes pre-existing rail corridors. Last I heard they're talking about all these half ass solutions to electrifying GO. They can't even get beyond EA's and community consultations here, where NIMBY's try to halt anything that would see the city maximize it's potential, cause you know property values are whatever dilution they have. Politicians just pretend to want to expand transit, it's all posturing for votes. Honestly it's too depressing to think about. This isn't changing in my lifetime and I'm only in my 30s. I appreciate your optimism, but GO service will never come close to comparing to Berlin's S-Bahn. Not terms of service or fair integration. Never happening. Ever. If so it already would have. Hope I'm wrong though.

You're wrong. Electrification is going to tender shortly. Double-tracking is underway in 2 corridors, Union Station will have triple the capacity it used to for commuter rail, grade separations are underway and many more are coming.

LSE, LSW, and core sections of KW, Barrie and Stouffville corridors will ramp up to 15M off-peak, 2-way service with a few short years (Milton will take longer). Rush hour service will be more frequent still.

24-hour service on the Lakeshore corridor is also in the offing though it may be a couple of more years yet.

Nothing is done til its done. But things look promising in that regard.

Anyways, this thread is about Montreal, not GO!

 

[blacksquirrels]

You're wrong. Electrification is going to tender shortly. Double-tracking is underway in 2 corridors, Union Station will have triple the capacity it used to for commuter rail, grade separations are underway and many more are coming.

LSE, LSW, and core sections of KW, Barrie and Stouffville corridors will ramp up to 15M off-peak, 2-way service with a few short years (Milton will take longer). Rush hour service will be more frequent still.

24-hour service on the Lakeshore corridor is also in the offing though it may be a couple of more years yet.

Nothing is done til its done. But things look promising in that regard.

Anyways, this thread is about Montreal, not GO!

The level of service you describe is nothing like the S-Bahn though. Hahaha imagine talking about ramping up to 4 trains an hour like that's some sort of amazing accomplishment. That does nothing for Torontonians and there won't be fair integration with the TTC either. If we were talking about something that resembled the Paris RER then that would be something to get excited about. Meanwhile Montreal is actually building something as we speak.

 

[SFO-YYZ]

The level of service you describe is nothing like the S-Bahn though. Hahaha imagine talking about ramping up to 4 trains an hour like that's some sort of amazing accomplishment. That does nothing for Torontonians and there won't be fair integration with the TTC either. If we were talking about something that resembled the Paris RER then that would be something to get excited about. Meanwhile Montreal is actually building something as we speak.

So do enlighten us, what exactly would you propose for the RER program in Toronto? I'm really curious, since the others actually contributed large amounts of facts.

 

[NoahB]

The level of service you describe is nothing like the S-Bahn though. Hahaha imagine talking about ramping up to 4 trains an hour like that's some sort of amazing accomplishment. That does nothing for Torontonians and there won't be fair integration with the TTC either. If we were talking about something that resembled the Paris RER then that would be something to get excited about. Meanwhile Montreal is actually building something as we speak.

You seem to very confused about the level of service planned for GO RER/Expansion. The 4 trains per hour is a service minimum. Not the max capacity. Some lines will have trains running every 7.5min(8 trains per hour). That's not even counting sections that are interlined. Some info is light at this time. But Metrolinx is clearly working on it as you can see in the GO transit forums.

GO Transit Expansion Plans & Meetings

Metrolinx will conduct a series of public meetings at various locations to present information about their plans for the GO Transit network. Location Date and Time Markham Village Community Centre …

stevemunro.ca

 

[blacksquirrels]

So do enlighten us, what exactly would you propose for the RER program in Toronto? I'm really curious, since the others actually contributed large amounts of facts.

I already did when I mentioned the Paris RER. A service that carries 36k+ ppdph with a train frequency of 24 to 30 trains per hour on the main trunk line or the once branches merge. It serves both local and commuter needs. That's ideal to me.

 

[robmausser]

You seem to very confused about the level of service planned for GO RER/Expansion. The 4 trains per hour is a service minimum. Not the max capacity. Some lines will have trains running every 7.5min(8 trains per hour). That's not even counting sections that are interlined. Some info is light at this time. But Metrolinx is clearly working on it as you can see in the GO transit forums.

GO Transit Expansion Plans & Meetings

Metrolinx will conduct a series of public meetings at various locations to present information about their plans for the GO Transit network. Location Date and Time Markham Village Community Centre …

stevemunro.ca

Everyone is confused about it because the Liberals know how to market something like it's a wet rag.

They kept saying "service of at least every 15 minutes" who does that?

That would be like GM saying " This Dodge Charger goes at least 20kmh"

You advertise the best case scenario, idiots.

"Trains every 5 minutes!" And you put (only during peak service hours) in tiny letters at the bottom of the page.

 

[smallspy]

I already did when I mentioned the Paris RER. A service that carries 36k+ ppdph with a train frequency of 24 to 30 trains per hour on the main trunk line or the once branches merge. It serves both local and commuter needs. That's ideal to me.

I guess you missed the part where Paris needed the RER as their subway capacity is a fraction of what Toronto's - or even Montréal's - subway is?

Dan

 

[Deadpool X]

I already did when I mentioned the Paris RER. A service that carries 36k+ ppdph with a train frequency of 24 to 30 trains per hour on the main trunk line or the once branches merge. It serves both local and commuter needs. That's ideal to me.

Does Paris have 18 lane highways carrying huge commuter load and competing with transit?

 

[Andy_in_Toronto]

Current excavation pit of the future McGill station. To be open in 2022. Does this progress make this date feasible?