Metrolinx: Sheppard East LRT (In Design)

[rbt]

Isn't it more that an orphan LRT truly makes no sense?

No. If that was the case then BRT construction or any other kind of service improvement with a reasonable ROI would have begun years ago.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

It's even harder to see that ever being built now. You'd still need an east side yard which is $$$. And without SELRT trackage on Sheppard the route would have to be revisited I think. I'd think Malvern residents would be better off placing their faith in a future SmartTrack line along Belleville sub. That's something I can see the Harper government putting money into.



Oh god I hope not. $1 billion unescalated for a single subway station. We've got to stop thinking that sounds like a reasonable deal.

And I would hate for people like Norm Kelly and the Fords to be able to declare even partial victory on Sheppard subway. It just leads to more political shenanigans in the future.

No, the Malvern LRT connects to the Crosstown so it should be fine. No one is going to extend the crosstown to UTSC.

We've been living in that future since Ford got elected. This is all the fallout from that.
He killed Transit City and the province caved on Scarborough and then had 2 reports on revenue tools that got tossed out of political cowardice. I really feel like the positive ball that got rolling from Places to Grow to Metrolinx to the Big Move is on life support, at best.
It's great, sincerely, that they're taking all this hydro money and using it for transit - mostly legit, badly needed projects. You can't really take any shots at RER or the money going to Mississauga and Waterloo.

But the process isn't any better than it used to be and things aren't being planned or announced with any kind of underlying philosophy beyond "spread it around." The idea of an integrated network seems out the window.

I know there's still stuff going on, in terms of fare integration and updating The Big Move but Ford's moves shone a spotlight on how far removed Metrolinx actually was from planning and executing the Regional Transit Plan and there's no evidence that's changing.

This is the voters fault. This is on them and no one else. Not only do we have to consider a Sheppard Subway, Yonge North (RH) and a full DRL off the bat has to come from this. The Domino effect is real. Let's be honest, we can't build a sheppard subway and not build Yonge North and vice versa. We also can't dump all those people on to Yonge south of steeles.

 

[44 North]

If money can be found (a big 'if'), I suppose a small extension of the subway to Victoria Park is a reasonable outcome. But that shouldn't be anywhere near the top of the priority list for scarce transit dollars. My fear is that this lack of resolution will embolden the 'subway in every pot' crowd to try to return Sheppard to the front of the queue, at the expense of the drastically more important DRL or even SmartTrack.

I don’t think it’d be unprecedented for the Prov to create a new plan for Sheppard East. Prior to the signing of the 2011 MOU for an all-underground Crosstown, weren't they on board with using TC funds to extend Sheppard (in exchange for keeping Eglinton East on the surface)? I recall reading that on TransitToronto awhile back (if anyone has a more reliable source, that’d be appreciated).

People seem keen to blame Ford and Harris; which is reasonable. But the current Prov gov’t is just as guilty of messing with plans as Ford is - if not more. Whether it’s embracing SmartTrack’s Eglinton West spur, dillydallying on their Relief Study, the aforementioned quid pro quo for Sheppard, the MOU for Eglinton East, promising to extend Yonge 7km north without acknowledging existing/future capacity issues... The way I see it is that it’s just as bad to create a new set of plans from scratch as it to delay/cancel existing plans.

 

[k10ery]

And what do you suggest to solve the traffic chaos at Don Mills Station?

Are you being sarcastic? I can't tell. But of course there's no way that can justify spending a billion 2010 dollars. Not unless about a quarter million people use this intersection everyday, and the subway extension would somehow magically make congestion go away

No. If that was the case then BRT construction or any other kind of service improvement with a reasonable ROI would have begun years ago.

I don't follow you, I'm sorry. BRT might well make more sense. But until 18 months ago we had a reasonable plan in the SELRT. Then SRT got cancelled, SELRT got orphaned, and we're only now dealing with the fallout from that. Agreed?

 

[k10ery]

People seem keen to blame Ford and Harris; which is reasonable. But the current Prov gov’t is just as guilty of messing with plans as Ford is - if not more. Whether it’s embracing SmartTrack’s Eglinton West spur, dillydallying on their Relief Study, the aforementioned quid pro quo for Sheppard, the MOU for Eglinton East, promising to extend Yonge 7km north without acknowledging existing/future capacity issues... The way I see it is that it’s just as bad to create a new set of plans from scratch as it to delay/cancel existing plans.

Oh, agreed completely, Mcguinty-Wynne is a as big a problem as Ford or even Stintz.

Where's MPP Mitzie Hunter on the announcement today? She was part of that expert panel that "saved" the SELRT from Ford back in 2012.

 

[nfitz]

And what do you suggest to solve the traffic chaos at Don Mills Station?

I've always said the subway should be extended east of the 404. Ridereship to Victoria Park is pretty solid. It's east of there it drops even lower.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

I've always said the subway should be extended east of the 404. Ridereship to Victoria Park is pretty solid. It's east of there it drops even lower.

You have made this point several times and I always agree. Time to educate k10ery

 

[salsa]

My takeaway from today's announcement:

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

People seem keen to blame Ford and Harris; which is reasonable. But the current Prov gov’t is just as guilty of messing with plans as Ford is - if not more. Whether it’s embracing SmartTrack’s Eglinton West spur, dillydallying on their Relief Study, the aforementioned quid pro quo for Sheppard, the MOU for Eglinton East, promising to extend Yonge 7km north without acknowledging existing/future capacity issues... The way I see it is that it’s just as bad to create a new set of plans from scratch as it to delay/cancel existing plans.

Well, there's no question the Liberals are partly to blame but MORE than Ford (or Harris)? That I find hard to concede. They've invested billions, they created Metrolinx - they did all the right things. And then they chickened out, acquiesced and undermined their own work - but they are still doing good things.

Harris, on the other hand, stopped things dead in their tracks and undermined generations of work, ending a funding agreement that dated back nearly 30 years.

In hockey, if two people start a fight, the instigator gets an extra penalty and Ford is the instigator. If not for him, there is no reason to expect that the Sheppard and Finch LRTs wouldn't be on track (subject to a few extra years due to TTC incompetence, as per usual). Ford rocked the boat and they went along with it when they should have stuck to their guns but I still can't see them as equally or more to blame except that they ultimately hold the money and legislative power. I totally disagree with their reversals but I can at least understand them, politically. Ford was just ignorant and Stintz opportunistic.

As for the voters - well, that's us. I mean, the people on UT know more about transit than 99% of the population so I find it hard to blame them for being duped. I wish they knew better but there are people at MTO and Metrolinx who DO know better and they've been ignored or marginalized to make all this work.

It's a sad state of affairs any way you slice it. It should be great news that RER is finally moving forward and the Finch LRT but somehow the amputation and the neglect of Sheppard stands like a metaphor for the city/region's overall inability to just GET IT DONE.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

And count your lucky stars that we have an extremely public transit friendly provincial government - all of it could have easily went down the tanks with a change in government.

AoD

 

[Electrify]

JUST A THOUGHT:

Since this is essentially a "reboot" of the Sheppard East line rather than restarting the initial project, or at least it seems to be as such considering its delayed schedule, perhaps we can use this opportunity to create a unified LRT/subway route and fix the fact that the previous design did not allow for such connectivity! This means designing the route to TTC rail gauge, ramp up platforms of equal height to the subway, and acquiring dual mode trains which can switch between third rail and overhead wires for power.

Perhaps this design change is the reason for the delay. Even if it is not, we now have an opportunity to do it right!

 

[k10ery]

Well, there's no question the Liberals are partly to blame but MORE than Ford (or Harris)? That I find hard to concede. They've invested billions, they created Metrolinx - they did all the right things. And then they chickened out, acquiesced and undermined their own work - but they are still doing good things.

Harris, on the other hand, stopped things dead in their tracks and undermined generations of work, ending a funding agreement that dated back nearly 30 years.

In hockey, if two people start a fight, the instigator gets an extra penalty and Ford is the instigator. If not for him, there is no reason to expect that the Sheppard and Finch LRTs wouldn't be on track (subject to a few extra years due to TTC incompetence, as per usual). Ford rocked the boat and they went along with it when they should have stuck to their guns but I still can't see them as equally or more to blame except that they ultimately hold the money and legislative power. I totally disagree with their reversals but I can at least understand them, politically. Ford was just ignorant and Stintz opportunistic.

As for the voters - well, that's us. I mean, the people on UT know more about transit than 99% of the population so I find it hard to blame them for being duped. I wish they knew better but there are people at MTO and Metrolinx who DO know better and they've been ignored or marginalized to make all this work.

It's a sad state of affairs any way you slice it. It should be great news that RER is finally moving forward and the Finch LRT but somehow the amputation and the neglect of Sheppard stands like a metaphor for the city/region's overall inability to just GET IT DONE.

I have to disagree with you. The Scarborough subway decision was a travesty in every way. But rescheduling SELRT into oblivion? Voters in that corridor made it clear again and again that they do not want LRT. This is just democracy in action.

As to which politician to blame for the overall failure of transit planning, why choose one? But if I have to, my candidaate would be Glen Murray. I still remember the Sunday afternoon he rode the SRT and tweeted his opinions about transit oriented development. As if he was somehow more qualified to choose the route and technology than all the transit planners writing reports for him! Such arrogance.

You have made this point several times and I always agree. Time to educate k10ery

Oh God please not that. I'm pretty sure nfitz couldn't run a benefit-cost analysis to decide what brand of breakfast cereal to buy

 

[salsa]

I've always said the subway should be extended east of the 404. Ridereship to Victoria Park is pretty solid. It's east of there it drops even lower.

I've heard this argument many times. How is it that everyone agrees that the sheppard subway was unjustified, but somehow there's enough ridership to extend it to Victoria Park?

 

[ehlow]

And count your lucky stars that we have an extremely public transit friendly provincial government - all of it could have easily went down the tanks with a change in government.

AoD

GO RER, pre-RER stuff (increase in service for the next few years, grade separations), Spadina subway extension, Danforth/Scarborough subway extension, Eglinton LRT, Finch LRT, Missisauga BRT, Viva BRT, Hurontario LRT, UPX, Union station improvements, new subways & streetcars.

That's quite a lot of transit in the pipeline for the GTA.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I have to disagree with you. The Scarborough subway decision was a travesty in every way. But rescheduling SELRT into oblivion? Voters in that corridor made it clear again and again that they do not want LRT. This is just democracy in action.

Voters in that corridor, and indeed the entire area also made it clear again and again that they do not want additional taxes required to fund said choice. Ergo, they get nothing. The result is quite democratic indeed.

GO RER, pre-RER stuff (increase in service for the next few years, grade separations), Spadina subway extension, Danforth/Scarborough subway extension, Eglinton LRT, Finch LRT, Missisauga BRT, Viva BRT, Hurontario LRT, UPX, Union station improvements, new subways & streetcars.

That's quite a lot of transit in the pipeline for the GTA.

It is - certainly unprecedented in the Canadian context.

AoD