Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[cplchanb]

I simply don't understand why this is an accessibility issue. How do blind people get balances from GO and other 905 readers? Instead I get ripped off for several fares. I want my money refunded but I can absorb the hit for now. Poverty advocates have declared Presto unsuitable for those living week to week, those without internet to easily check balances, and if there is going to be persistent overcharging it's gonna be hard to argue that.

Unfortunately for the blind there is no 100% solution. plain and simple. Unless the reader can quickly print them a braille receipt they really just need to accept the fact that they'll need help with checking their balances. However for the 95% of the rest of the riders having the balance show up is an essential piece of the presto system that needs to happen for the new readers.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Unfortunately for the blind there is no 100% solution. plain and simple. Unless the reader can quickly print them a braille receipt they really just need to accept the fact that they'll need help with checking their balances. However for the 95% of the rest of the riders having the balance show up is an essential piece of the presto system that needs to happen for the new readers.

I don't see why seeing your balance every time you tap your card is impart. When I use mine on Go transit and occasionally on the TTC, I mostly use a metropolis but I sometimes just like to check and see what happens when I use my Presto card on it. I never look at the balance until later when I look it up on my computer and I hardly ever see anyone look at the readers in go train stations, most poe just tap as they are heading to the platform. Even the one time I used it on ago Buss I didn't look at it other than to see it had accepted my card. I don't think the most poel actually take the time to look at everything on the screen as they tap. Plus once the TTC adds the Metrospa to the Presto card later this year most people probably won't even be shown a balance, I believe the figure is about 75% of all riders on the TTC use Metropass or maybe even more.

 

[11th]

Though not perfect, it's acceptable for the readers to not show the balances, IF they don't charge you a penalty for going into negative. Right now it basically forces you to be on autoload, unless you check your balances regularly either at the kiosk or online.

 

[ShonTron]

I simply don't understand why this is an accessibility issue. How do blind people get balances from GO and other 905 readers? Instead I get ripped off for several fares. I want my money refunded but I can absorb the hit for now. Poverty advocates have declared Presto unsuitable for those living week to week, those without internet to easily check balances, and if there is going to be persistent overcharging it's gonna be hard to argue that.

They're afraid of lawyer David Lepofsky? He's usually in the right, fighting for accessibility on transit vehicles and other public services. But he'd be the first one to make a public complaint if TTC presto machines showed balances/transfer status on a screen they he would not be able to see.

A solution that would provide reasonable accommodation for all would be audio-enabled balance checkers at TTC stations.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

A solution that would provide reasonable accommodation for all would be audio-enabled balance checkers at TTC stations.

The Presto reload machines serve that purpose as they have a headphone jack on them much like ATM's do.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Poverty advocates have declared Presto unsuitable for those living week to week, those without internet to easily check balances, and if there is going to be persistent overcharging it's gonna be hard to argue that.

So how do those people use it in London With Oyster cards being the only way to use there system?

 

[nfitz]

I simply don't understand why this is an accessibility issue. How do blind people get balances from GO and other 905 readers? Instead I get ripped off for several fares. I want my money refunded but I can absorb the hit for now. Poverty advocates have declared Presto unsuitable for those living week to week, those without internet to easily check balances, and if there is going to be persistent overcharging it's gonna be hard to argue that.

They're afraid of lawyer David Lepofsky? He's usually in the right, fighting for accessibility on transit vehicles and other public services. But he'd be the first one to make a public complaint if TTC presto machines showed balances/transfer status on a screen they he would not be able to see.

I'd think so. They tend to target TTC, and usually win. So no surprise TTC isn't drawing the target on their back, even if they can get away with it in the boonies.

 

[amnesiajune]

So how do those people use it in London With Oyster cards being the only way to use there system?

By not complaining.

It's literally that easy. Toronto has a serious "change" problem right now, where anything different than the status quo immediately has all of its flaws attacked and its benefits largely ignored. Can you imagine if the fare policy was like in the 1970s, where drivers were making change for passengers' fares while they drove the bus/streetcar, and the TTC tried to implement an exact change-only policy? People would lose it. Even the discontinuation of tickets (~10 years ago) wasn't easy, and there's literally nothing you could do with a ticket that you couldn't with a token, besides putting it in certain parts of your wallet.

Admittedly though, the TTC's Presto implementation has a serious flaw with balance checking. Why does every other transit system show your remaining balance but not the TTC? I have no clue, and I haven't heard any rational explanation ("other people might see your balance" isn't one).

 

[rbt]

Though not perfect, it's acceptable for the readers to not show the balances, IF they don't charge you a penalty for going into negative. Right now it basically forces you to be on autoload, unless you check your balances regularly either at the kiosk or online.

The kiosks are a much better place for a balance check anyway. TTC just needs to add them to the bus waiting areas of the platforms in addition to the entrances.

We don't need people pausing at gates and doors to read their balance nor does the person entering behind them need to know they have $1000 on their Presto card (yes, I've seen $500+ balances a a few times for people boarding Lake Shore trains; probably around 1 in 30 from my anecdotal and non-random sampling).

Also, knowing your balance after you've tapped won't prevent a person from going negative; they've already gone negative by that point. They will want to check their balance before making the payment, not after.

 

[amnesiajune]

We don't need people pausing at gates and doors to read their balance nor does the person entering behind them need to know they have $1000 on their Presto card (yes, I've seen $500+ balances a a few times for people boarding Lake Shore trains; probably around 1 in 30 from my anecdotal and non-random sampling).

This makes absolutely no sense. Why does nobody else have this problem? (Answer: Because it isn't one). Go to Washington. Go to NYC. Go to London. Go to Vancouver. They all tell you the balance on your card. They do it instantly. They don't have a traffic jam of people at the fare gates looking at their balances.

I'm sure there's some reason why the TTC did this. I'd like to know what it is, because they definitely didn't think of people who are so opposed to online registration that they put eight months of TTC fares on their card at once.

 

[johntauren]

This makes absolutely no sense. Why does nobody else have this problem? (Answer: Because it isn't one). Go to Washington. Go to NYC. Go to London. Go to Vancouver. They all tell you the balance on your card. They do it instantly. They don't have a traffic jam of people at the fare gates looking at their balances.

I'm sure there's some reason why the TTC did this. I'd like to know what it is, because they definitely didn't think of people who are so opposed to online registration that they put eight months of TTC fares on their card at once.

I've never seen any backup at readers in 905 or on GO because of someone lingering to check their balance.
Line-ups yes, but only because of a limited number of a readers and a large number boarding, and they move smoothly.

I was there for testing of the devices before the first streetcar debuted, and no reason was ever given for why the balance wasn't displayed, even though the whole group mentioned it.
Even a transfer notification would be useful, so I know I'm not being double-charged when I shouldn't be on the TTC. (For example, the subway bus bays under construction)


It absolutely can't be an accessibility issue either because 905 and GO has been doing it for years, and there hasn't been no movement to change the readers. I challenge anyone to find anything, any sort of news challenging the 905/GO Presto readers on accessibility issues.

 

[Leo_Chan]

I've never seen any backup at readers in 905 or on GO because of someone lingering to check their balance.
Line-ups yes, but only because of a limited number of a readers and a large number boarding, and they move smoothly.

I was there for testing of the devices before the first streetcar debuted, and no reason was ever given for why the balance wasn't displayed, even though the whole group mentioned it.
Even a transfer notification would be useful, so I know I'm not being double-charged when I shouldn't be on the TTC. (For example, the subway bus bays under construction)


It absolutely can't be an accessibility issue either because 905 and GO has been doing it for years, and there hasn't been no movement to change the readers. I challenge anyone to find anything, any sort of news challenging the 905/GO Presto readers on accessibility issues.

I think it's just the TTC wanting to meet the requirements as well as possible, something other transit agencies don't worry that much about, so if someone can't access it then no one can.

 

[rbt]

I think it's just the TTC wanting to meet the requirements as well as possible, something other transit agencies don't worry that much about, so if someone can't access it then no one can.

TTC has been the first transit agency sued (and lost) in the last 3 rounds of lawsuits. Electronic subway stop announcements, signs on buses, etc. were by court order.

I can't blame TTC for being cautious.

 

[rbt]

I've never seen any backup at readers in 905 or on GO because of someone lingering to check their balance.
Line-ups yes, but only because of a limited number of a readers and a large number boarding, and they move smoothly.

So.. If nobody is bothering to check their balance on the GO readers, why is it suddenly necessary for TTC to have that functionality at the gate in addition to the kiosk?

 

[TOareaFan]

I've never seen any backup at readers in 905 or on GO because of someone lingering to check their balance.
Line-ups yes, but only because of a limited number of a readers and a large number boarding, and they move smoothly.

Just wondering....how do you know the backup is because of lack of machines....not people spending a sub-optimal length of time (on average) at the machines that are there? How can you say with confidence that the line ups would not shorten if the balance display was removed?