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Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

The TTC is definitely not planning on eliminating cash fares at any point because it makes the system completely inaccessible to casual riders/tourists. Cash fares will likely be accepted as long as cash exists, and in the case of the LFLRVs that requires onboard fare vending machines which already exist.
I will be very surprised if the TTC accepts cash in 2 years time. Many transit systems do not and they require either a card like Presto and/or accept contactless payments from cards or phones. See https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/ or https://transportnsw.info/tickets-opal You may be able to buy a card with cash but a card will be necessary.
 
I will be very surprised if the TTC accepts cash in 2 years time. Many transit systems do not and they require either a card like Presto and/or accept contactless payments from cards or phones. See https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/ or https://transportnsw.info/tickets-opal You may be able to buy a card with cash but a card will be necessary.

Agree. London doesn’t have cash fares, and it doesn’t seem to deter tourists.

I just don't see it happening here, at least within 20 years. I don't know if you've seen the swaths of people complaining online to Presto about privacy concerns and how they only want to load the card with cash and how it's completely unacceptable that the TTC's only cash location for Presto loads is Davisville. I personally only ever use my credit card via Apple Pay for Presto loads at SSRMs, and for just about all purchases in general, but many people--mostly older folks, but even some younger people--simply refuse to use cards, or at least avoid it like the plague.

At subway stations there's not much point in eliminating cash since there's space for machines that accept cash. They are planning to have vending machines that dispense paper-based one-time-use disposable "presto" cards for single rides, which you will be able to buy with cash, debit, or credit; you'll be able get a disposable card or an actual card (or load your existing card) at those. They'll replace the Token and Pass vending machines and probably the current Presto reload machines which were never intended to exist and just popped up as a stopgap before these big machines were ready to deploy.

On LFLRVs and buses, one thing to keep in mind is debit/credit payments may not be possible because they sometimes lose cell reception. For instance, the 509/510 at Queen's Quay Station usually shut off their credit/debit option as soon as they get underground due to signal loss. So then people wouldn't even be able to just hop on a vehicle, they'd have to walk to a subway station elsewhere to buy a card then go board their vehicle. This is not an acceptable way to run a transit system for either locals or tourists.

Aside from the reception issue, on LFLRVs there's not much point since their fare payment machines already take cash. There's no reason to fix something that isn't broken.

As for buses, consider dropping cash on all of the TTC's massive bus network, much of which is in areas that there is not, and likely to ever be, convenient Presto purchase opportunities nearby. People might have to take a $20 or $30 taxi ride to get somewhere that they can buy a card. This will almost completely eliminate casual and visitor ridership. For the bus network at least, I think keeping the farebox makes sense. And would there really be a benefit in eliminating it?

At any rate, I've never heard anyone at the TTC even hypothesize about the possible merits of eliminating cash within the next 20 or 30 years, and all discussions I recall on the Presto topic have emphasized that cash will always be an option.
 
I just don't see it happening here, at least within 20 years. I don't know if you've seen the swaths of people complaining online to Presto about privacy concerns and how they only want to load the card with cash and how it's completely unacceptable that the TTC's only cash location for Presto loads is Davisville. I personally only ever use my credit card via Apple Pay for Presto loads at SSRMs, and for just about all purchases in general, but many people--mostly older folks, but even some younger people--simply refuse to use cards, or at least avoid it like the plague.

At subway stations there's not much point in eliminating cash since there's space for machines that accept cash. They are planning to have vending machines that dispense paper-based one-time-use disposable "presto" cards for single rides, which you will be able to buy with cash, debit, or credit; you'll be able get a disposable card or an actual card (or load your existing card) at those. They'll replace the Token and Pass vending machines and probably the current Presto reload machines which were never intended to exist and just popped up as a stopgap before these big machines were ready to deploy.

On LFLRVs and buses, one thing to keep in mind is debit/credit payments may not be possible because they sometimes lose cell reception. For instance, the 509/510 at Queen's Quay Station usually shut off their credit/debit option as soon as they get underground due to signal loss. So then people wouldn't even be able to just hop on a vehicle, they'd have to walk to a subway station elsewhere to buy a card then go board their vehicle. This is not an acceptable way to run a transit system for either locals or tourists.

Aside from the reception issue, on LFLRVs there's not much point since their fare payment machines already take cash. There's no reason to fix something that isn't broken.

As for buses, consider dropping cash on all of the TTC's massive bus network, much of which is in areas that there is not, and likely to ever be, convenient Presto purchase opportunities nearby. People might have to take a $20 or $30 taxi ride to get somewhere that they can buy a card. This will almost completely eliminate casual and visitor ridership. For the bus network at least, I think keeping the farebox makes sense. And would there really be a benefit in eliminating it?

At any rate, I've never heard anyone at the TTC even hypothesize about the possible merits of eliminating cash within the next 20 or 30 years, and all discussions I recall on the Presto topic have emphasized that cash will always be an option.
Toronto needs to grow up. I figure stuff out when I am a tourist, those who visit Toronto will too.

I believe there are ticket machines at the Ferry docks statuon? In London there are numerous machines where you can use your cash to buy passes at every station we visited. That’s what we should be doing rather than direct cash fares, except on the LFLRVs that have a machine.
 
Because when I was there we had to go to the machine to buy a fare.

Yeah, I realized by "no cash fare" you actually meant they didn't have a cash drop box in a fare-gate configuration rather than they didn't accept cash in exchange for a trip.

TTC ordered a similar setup from Metrolinx. Single trip tickets (purchasable through numerous monetary instruments) arrive sometime this fall as do the machines selling them.

IMO, paying staff at Via Rail desk a stack of bills at the counter in exchange for a ticket is a cash fare; despite the boarding process itself being done with a pre-paid ticket.
 
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At any rate, I've never heard anyone at the TTC even hypothesize about the possible merits of eliminating cash within the next 20 or 30 years, and all discussions I recall on the Presto topic have emphasized that cash will always be an option.
On December 16, 2015, the TTC board received a report reviewing fare policies, which not only hypothesized the possible merits, it discussed the possibility of eliminating cash fares on buses. It was decided to study this further.

You might recall, this was the same decision that introduced the future tap-outs at subway stations, and approved peak and off-peak pricing for 2018.
 
Interesting point.


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True but not every card works with it even if it does have contactless payment set up on it, possibly due to preventing fraudulent use of the crad.
Not sure it's fraud.

TFL's website warns people - see https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/what-are-contactless-payment-cards

In particular, they note that for Mastercard, that some "cards issued in the USA, Canada and the Netherlands are not accepted" and that for Visa that some "contactless payment cards from countries issued outside the UK are not accepted".

Not quite read for prime-time yet it appears.

I wondered if it's something to do with the extra charges to businesses for the premium cards that are so common in Canada and the USA.
 
Not sure it's fraud.

TFL's website warns people - see https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/what-are-contactless-payment-cards

In particular, they note that for Mastercard, that some "cards issued in the USA, Canada and the Netherlands are not accepted" and that for Visa that some "contactless payment cards from countries issued outside the UK are not accepted".

Not quite read for prime-time yet it appears.

I wondered if it's something to do with the extra charges to businesses for the premium cards that are so common in Canada and the USA.
The reason is that the UK were FAR ahead of Canada and VERY FAR ahead of US in having chip & pin cards. All UK cards have had C&P for about a decade, I think there are still some valid US ones without it. The problem is not with the TFL system it is with the credit/debit cards.
 
Toronto needs to grow up. I figure stuff out when I am a tourist, those who visit Toronto will too.

I believe there are ticket machines at the Ferry docks statuon? In London there are numerous machines where you can use your cash to buy passes at every station we visited. That’s what we should be doing rather than direct cash fares, except on the LFLRVs that have a machine.
I'm agree. Grow up. Get with it. As @PinkLucy says, as tourists all,of us figure it out. Here is an article about the Swedish central bank'splan to eliminate cash entirely. Bring it on. Cash? What a complete waste of precious overhead resources.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...hless-society-cards-phone-apps-leading-europe
 
Not sure it's fraud.
I said it's possible that it could be because of Fraud as many poeo, will try making smaller purchases first before proceeding with a stolen card.

In particular, they note that for Mastercard, that some "cards issued in the USA, Canada and the Netherlands are not accepted" and that for Visa that some "contactless payment cards from countries issued outside the UK are not accepted".

Everywhere has issues with different countries credit cards. Ome of the bigger problems is a lot of poel in the US have "debit credit" cards basically a credit card that is tied to a bank account rather then being a credit card. The biggest problem I have with them is it gives poel a false sense of it being a credit card and it not actually being a debit card.
 
Having just visited Barcelona and Lisbon, I have no idea why TTC/Metrolinx went with the faregates that they did. Why not something more substantial that works better and faster and is (from what I've seen) less prone to breaking.

5631310002_4_metro-station-gates-people.jpg
 

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