nfitz
Superstar
We all know he said the exact opposite ... I assume Electrify is just being humerous ... or he wouldn't have been able to reverse what he said so skillfully.
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GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
No, I think that was his campaign slogan in '06. The lawn signs were enormous.
ShonTron
Moderator
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Indeed. Though the TTC is moving years forward with these fare boxes, from the 1940s to the 1970s. MTA New York requires a similar scan of all passes, and can take extra time to load those infamously slow crosstown buses - though having a first-generation smart card system (the magnetic strip Metrocard) allows for various combinations, and 30-day passes, rather than passes with holograms and new designs good only for the month dated.
I am hoping that the trial '70s era fare boxes remain another of many unimplemented "pilot projects" - after all, look at the TTC's refusal to bring a timed transfer beyond a pilot project on St. Clair, despite most other Ontario systems of any significance already offering them now - apart from GO, which has its own annoying, head-against-the-wall mentality - the next 7 systems in this province offers them (OC Transpo, Mississauga, Hamilton Street Railway, York Region, Grand River Transit, Brampton, London)
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Electrify
Senior Member
"The entire project was to be implemented across the Toronto region by 2010. We're still waiting on that one. Now, full Presto implementation across GO Transit and the nine GTA transportation agencies, excluding the TTC, is expected by 2011; however, only 12 TTC stations and no TTC bus lines will use Presto by the end of its scheduled 2011 rollout.
What's the holdup? Well, initially the TTC boycotted Presto arguing that the money the province was going to use to pay for Presto would be better spent on new buses."
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/article/781414--smartcards-beat-out-service-with-a-smile
chriskayTO said:
Except when the TTC needs to raise its fares...
http://299bloorcallcontrol.com/post/253786554/quick-fix-x-5-ttc-fare-headaches
chriskayTO
Active Member
That had more to do with bad planning than an inherent problem with fare media.
nfitz
Superstar
Boycotted? An odd choice of words. Funding for full Presto implementation hasn't been provided. TTC is still moving ahead though.
And here's a question. With the McGuinty government cancelling the 2015 implemtation of the Finch LRT, who is going to pay for all the new buses we are going to need?
EnviroTO
Senior Member
The TTC couldn't come up with a more chaotic new farebox design if they tried and it doesn't handle Presto nor Tap N Go / PayWave. A customer coming onto the bus confronted with that thing needs to stop and figure that thing out. It is time to retire the tokens, not just to deal with hoarding during fare changes but because it isn't a standard payment method accepted in machines. The TTC needs to standardize on only accepting cash, machine readable, and contactless fares. Transfers should be machine readable and given out by a machine inside the bus, not the driver. At subway turnstiles only machine readable and contactless fares should be used. By machine readable I mean paper and plastic cards fed in one side of a machine and passed out the other (like JR Rail tickets, airline ticket readers at some airports, and the parking machines which take both tickets and credit cards).
Mapleson
Active Member
So 1 fare collector 24 hours at minimum wage costs $248/day and $90,520/year. Assuming station staffing were cut by 1 member, that's be a 3-year return period for an installation cost of $271,560. Might just be me, but if the TTC is so cash strapped, they should be jumping over any cost savings that have under a 5-year return period, so we don't have a $1-billion operating deficit come 2020.
If the TTC were making a profit, then I might say 'fare collection is antiquated, but it works'. The TTC hasn't since the days of Metro Toronto, so maybe it's time for change.
chriskayTO
Active Member
Totally agree with you on the collectors, however nobody seems to have the chutzpah to take on the ATU on reducing/eliminating collectors' and their bloated salaries. Isn't that the main reason why an operator opens and closes the doors on the SRT - that the union convinced the public that it was somehow unsafe to be on fully automated trains? How much money have we wasted over the years because the TTC folded back then? It's a different issue, but there's no questioning the power and influence of the unions on issues when they are threatened by job cuts.
RedRocket191
Senior Member
^
The real reason is because the computer-controlled operation system is unreliable.
The real reason is because the computer-controlled operation system is unreliable.
chriskayTO
Active Member
So what's the difference between the systems used in Toronto and those used in Vancouver or Detroit?
RedRocket191
Senior Member
Updated software?
Besides, ATU 113 has been supportive of automatic fare collection (here, page 11) so i'm not sure where you (and others) are going with the whole union angle...
Besides, ATU 113 has been supportive of automatic fare collection (here, page 11) so i'm not sure where you (and others) are going with the whole union angle...
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kEiThZ
Superstar
^ More work for unionized maintenance?
RedRocket191
Senior Member
^ Why not? It's the simple solution to the viewpoint that the Union has been obstructionist. Besides, we'll still need people to sell fares and Presto cards and we can reclassify the people who man the rush-hour gates as the Station Masters they keep talking about. No one needs to lose their job.
Mapleson
Active Member
PRESTO machine has been installed at Exhibition Station, and bagged. Lots of other "clean up" work going on there today. All new benches and painted the light posts.