Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[Tuscani01]

But did you put more into the fare-box than normal or was it mostly bonus trips?

Farebox recovery is a city problem. Congestion is a federal/provincial tax revenue problem. The feds/province have a strong interest in getting you to work as rapidly as possible (to maximize income) and the city has a strong interest in minimizing service.

Normally, I would just walk and not use the TTC at all for that trip. I only decided to use it because I knew my ride back was free. It's $2.90 they otherwise wouldn't have received from me.

 

[Megaton327]

That wouldn't make sense though... as he only took 2 trips each day on the 16th and 17th. That would be less than a day pass.

Also weird that yesterday, my trip still deducted $2.90, but my return trip was $0. I wonder why @Andy T was only charged $1.95 and I was charged $2.90

If you look at his picture, the 'loyalty trip' numbers incrementing up from 1 to 2 are for his 2 trips on the 17th. Yes, 2 trips is less than a day pass, but the system obviously needs to start counting from the first one.

(And $1.95 is the senior/student amount, whereas $2.90 is the adult amount.)

 

[NotMathematical]

Also weird that yesterday, my trip still deducted $2.90, but my return trip was $0. I wonder why @Andy T was only charged $1.95 and I was charged $2.90

Maybe he used a Senior/Student card instead of an adult one?

 

[Tuscani01]

Completely forgot that student/senior rates existed. Everything is clear now!

 

[Andy T]

Yes as I'm a student so I have my card set up for student concession.

 

[ottbike]

Yes as I'm a student so I have my card set up for student concession.

Too bad there is no Presto discount for post-secondary students

 

[DSC]

It is clearly impossible (or at least not cost-effective) to check that all passengers have proof of payment and the philosophy of random checks is that you never know when you will be checked and thus will always have a valid 'travel document'. Obviously the checks need to be sufficiently frequent that people will not (correctly) assume the probability of being checked is miniscule while not being so frequent that the cost of making them is too high. It is not reasonable to say that because the Fare Inspectors only looked at one person's proof of payment means that their work was a waste of time/money. I suspect that the fact they were visible probably reduced fare evasion - on that vehicle and elsewhere.

The City has just published "briefing notes' on PRESTO inspectors:

• Inspection rate with current staff = 3.2 % (243K inspections/7,480K riders/month)
• Inspection rate with proposed staffing = 4.6 % (343K inspections/7,480K riders/month)
• Lack of proper enforcement of our fare policies will lead to the growth of fare evasion and the resulting risk to revenue. - 2 - BN# 41 – Jan 18
• The addition of the 20 Fare Inspection positions will reduce the risk to the proper collection of fares.
• Each 1% increment of non-pass fares represents approximately 2.2 million rides which approaches $6 million in lost revenue.
• Industry Standard for Fare Inspection – 4-5% of ridership should be inspected, balancing customer perception of harassment and due diligence.
See: http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2016/bu/bgrd/backgroundfile-87865.pdf

 

[NotMathematical]

Has anyone tried using PRESTO today now with the TTC Transfer Rules implemented?

 

[drewds]

I can confirm that the 2 hour transfer is definitely gone. Tapped on at King at 5:27PM, then hopped back on the TTC at Yonge-Bloor at 7:12PM, charged for both taps.

In order to see if there's a daily cap I'd have to take one more ride today, I'm not planning on going anywhere else tonight though.

 

[Steve X]

we'll see

They might have to let some of the fare evaders go because it would be too risky. What happens if 3 or 4 of them gang up on an inspector?

Fare inspection is always done with a group of 3 inspectors so they don't gang up. It's more efficient this way with 4 doors on a new streetcar, each inspector could enter at a different door and walk to the next one. This is how it is done on the Calgary C-Trains but I haven't seen them inspect like this on the TTC.

 

[bartekci]

@drewds Regarding Daily Cap, I queried Brad today and he said it "will be" $12. So, don't think it's implemented yet but coming soon.

 

[ShonTron]

I can confirm that the 2 hour transfer is definitely gone. Tapped on at King at 5:27PM, then hopped back on the TTC at Yonge-Bloor at 7:12PM, charged for both taps.

In order to see if there's a daily cap I'd have to take one more ride today, I'm not planning on going anywhere else tonight though.

From what I understand, the TTC is quietly adopting Montreal rules for Presto. Two-hour transfer, but with no re-boarding same route (including the subway) . A few weeks ago, while in Montreal, I tapped on the 55 St-Laurent bus in the Old City, took it north, lined up for Schwartz, ate, walked to Sherbrooke Station, and tapped the faregate with the Opus card, which still only had the one fare left, and got on the Metro. I'll have to test this theory some time.

 

[Megaton327]

From what I understand, the TTC is quietly adopting Montreal rules for Presto. Two-hour transfer, but with no re-boarding same route (including the subway) . A few weeks ago, while in Montreal, I tapped on the 55 St-Laurent bus in the Old City, took it north, lined up for Schwartz, ate, walked to Sherbrooke Station, and tapped the faregate with the Opus card, which still only had the one fare left, and got on the Metro. I'll have to test this theory some time.

This seems likely--however, a number of times, especially on the new streetcars, I have seen either the SRVM-printed transfers or my presto transaction history indicate not only the wrong location but a completely different route (e.g. 511 or 510 instead of 509) after paying. This could be a significant issue--let's say I get on an eastbound 509 at Fleet and want to transfer to a northbound 510; if the streetcar isn't configured properly, my presto tap says my first car was a 510, and when I actually tap on a 510 it charges me a second fare--which of course thanks to the TTC/Presto's stupidity in not showing info on the screen, I can only find out a day later on the website.

If they insist on sticking with these transfer rules instead of just switching to 2-hour transfers, the least they can do is ensure the correct route, if not even actual location, is encoded on the vehicles so that the transfers can work properly. Guess that's too hard for the TTC, though.

 

[PinkLucy]

Agreed re the wrong location information, but you can check the website the same day to see if you've been charged twice -- you no longer have to wait 24 hours for transactions to appear. Still a PITA if you've been charged twice in the situation you describe.

 

[nfitz]

Agreed re the wrong location information, but you can check the website the same day to see if you've been charged twice -- you no longer have to wait 24 hours for transactions to appear.

Streetcar and subway taps have been appearing with an hour or two since December - mostly. Though I've got a stray one from January 8th that still doesn't show - the the transfer a few minutes later does correctly.

From what I understand, the TTC is quietly adopting Montreal rules for Presto. Two-hour transfer, but with no re-boarding same route (including the subway) .

That's how Brad Ross has been implying it works for weeks now.

Subway is easy enough. Same route will be interesting, as it precludes short-turns, or valid same-route to same-route transfers (e.g. 510 from Queen/Leslie to King/Spadina, and then another 510 south to Queens Quay).

We've seen evidence now that subway to subway "transfers" are now 2 fares. We need to see what happens with the same route still. I'm surprised there is no route number showing up; is that part of the dataset? Hmm ...