Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[TOareaFan]

I don't even see Presto roll out and SFVMs as mutually exclusive. A city of Toronto will always have ocassional/rare users that need to pay a fare for one ride. I have noted above a couple of tourist/visitor rich places where the purchase of single fares needs to be facilitated and I bet we could all come up with a few more. I bet these machines are not that expensive and the TTC should probably be looking at installing them in a few places even when Presto is rolled out.

 

[nfitz]

I don't even see Presto roll out and SFVMs as mutually exclusive. A city of Toronto will always have ocassional/rare users that need to pay a fare for one ride. I have noted above a couple of tourist/visitor rich places where the purchase of single fares needs to be facilitated and I bet we could all come up with a few more. I bet these machines are not that expensive and the TTC should probably be looking at installing them in a few places even when Presto is rolled out.

I don't think they are mutually exclusive. It's not that there won't be SFVMs once Presto is in. It's just that these aren't the final machines - which I assume would both have Presto and other capabilities.

I'm not even sure if the November machines are the final ones ... given that for a couple of years during transition, you'll need to be able to get a receipt every time you use Presto, in case you transfer to a vehicle that isn't enable yet.

 

[TOareaFan]

I don't think they are mutually exclusive. It's not that there won't be SFVMs once Presto is in. It's just that these aren't the final machines - which I assume would both have Presto and other capabilities.

I'm not even sure if the November machines are the final ones ... given that for a couple of years during transition, you'll need to be able to get a receipt every time you use Presto, in case you transfer to a vehicle that isn't enable yet.

This is where I get a bit frustrated with the Presto roll out. These machines, that accept cash/debit/presto for payment and spit out some sort of receipt/transfer/ticket could/should have been rolled out already.

I get (don't fully understand, but I get) how complicated it might be rolling out payment machines on a mixed fleet of buses/streetcars/subways (particularly as a major part of that was/is going through a huge fleet renewal) but these stand alone machines that will always be necessary could have been designed/ordered/built/installed by now...surely.

 

[nfitz]

I get (don't fully understand, but I get) how complicated it might be rolling out payment machines on a mixed fleet of buses/streetcars/subways (particularly as a major part of that was/is going through a huge fleet renewal) but these stand alone machines that will always be necessary could have been designed/ordered/built/installed by now...surely.

If TTC had been willing to take off-the-shelf Presto capabilities ... sure. But TTC's insistence to incorporate further features such as being able to tap on and off with a cell phone or debit card changes the game.

They only signed the master agreement at the end of November 2012. That's when design of this machine would have started. Given the 650-page Master Agreement, I'm surprised the vendor has managed to read the entire thing by now!

Given how badly the Ottawa Presto-rollout went (recall that Metrolinx's senior executive managing Presto got fired), I'm sure everyone at Metrolinx is being very, very careful and methodical.

 

[TOareaFan]

If TTC had been willing to take off-the-shelf Presto capabilities ... sure. But TTC's insistence to incorporate further features such as being able to tap on and off with a cell phone or debit card changes the game.

Not sure the ticket vending machines would have to take all of those things.....the advanced-techy tourist that wants to tap his phone will just go straight to the turnstile/door/vehicle and tap his phone on the reader there. The vending machines will be (in my mind) for those that want to insert 20th century technology (credit cards and debit cards) or pre-20th century technology (cash) to get a single ride on the rocket.

 

[nfitz]

Not sure the ticket vending machines would have to take all of those things.....the advanced-techy tourist that wants to tap his phone will just go straight to the turnstile/door/vehicle and tap his phone on the reader there. The vending machines will be (in my mind) for those that want to insert 20th century technology (credit cards and debit cards) or pre-20th century technology (cash) to get a single ride on the rocket.

There's also the question of the on-board vending machines.

 

[BMO]

Not sure the ticket vending machines would have to take all of those things.....the advanced-techy tourist that wants to tap his phone will just go straight to the turnstile/door/vehicle and tap his phone on the reader there. The vending machines will be (in my mind) for those that want to insert 20th century technology (credit cards and debit cards) or pre-20th century technology (cash) to get a single ride on the rocket.

I was under the impression that TTC's PRESTO roll-out would be similar to Boston, Montreal or Amsterdam's where tourists or one-time users, etc could purchase a ticket with cash from a machine or kiosk that that can be tapped on the PRESTO readers, or just use their credit card/ debit card which is exactly what the second PRESTO machine that will be placed on streetcars will be. correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[nfitz]

I was under the impression that TTC's PRESTO roll-out would be similar to Boston, Montreal or Amsterdam's where tourists or one-time users, etc could purchase a ticket with cash from a machine or kiosk that that can be tapped on the PRESTO readers, or just use their credit card/ debit card which is exactly what the second PRESTO machine that will be placed on streetcars will be. correct me if I'm wrong.

Some of the busier stops will have machines (hundreds perhaps). There will be thousands of stops that won't have machines - and for those, you'd have to buy the ticket on the vehicle. TTC has over 10,000 stops!

I don't think what you are buying are tappable tickets ... but I'm not sure. Aren't the single ride tickets in Montreal that you buy in vending machines fed into the machine rather than tapped on the machine? I thought only the two-rides (etc.) were tappable.

 

[cplchanb]

Perhaps for the stops not close by to the subway they could have a nearby by convenience store or whatever retail as an affiliate to sell one ride tickets.
In Rome they had this as there were only validators by each door on the buses and it worked well.
I dont think it will be possible to have vending machines at every single stop, not even the major ones so it will be important to bring third party assistance as well with the added benefit of giving business to the retailers as a bonus.

 

[TOareaFan]

Perhaps for the stops not close by to the subway they could have a nearby by convenience store or whatever retail as an affiliate to sell one ride tickets.

At the risk of attracting the "Montreal is so much better" posts.....one really neat thing they have done (so far just for the 747 bus route...I think) is program the parking meters on Rene Levesque to also sell/print bus ride tickets.

 

[nfitz]

Perhaps for the stops not close by to the subway they could have a nearby by convenience store or whatever retail as an affiliate to sell one ride tickets.

On a suburban street a kilometre to the nearest store?

That's a terrible idea. Just put the ability to pay on buses rather than trying to be customer unfriendly.

In Rome they had this as there were only validators by each door on the buses and it worked well.

Suburban Toronto isn't Rome. And even in urban areas, most stores are closed at 4 AM.

 

[cplchanb]

On a suburban street a kilometre to the nearest store?

That's a terrible idea. Just put the ability to pay on buses rather than trying to be customer unfriendly.

Suburban Toronto isn't Rome. And even in urban areas, most stores are closed at 4 AM.

I was responding to the notion of having ticket machines at the busy stops and also to provide some food for thought, not a blanket statement that all fare collection on board be abolished.
IMO I think it would be too costly to maintain such a network of machines like that. Sure it would be good for people to buy on site, but how will ttc maintain that many?
It would be better if they are to go with the concept that at the busier stops, nearby retail be contracted to sell tickets and they just give TTC x% of what they have sold. That way they can get business and also provide TTC
with a cheap way of revenue without the need for procurement, endless testing, maintenance and repair. Once again however, its for stops near stores.

And oyea if youre implying that Rome doesnt close down for the night you are wrong
the North Yorks of Rome actually do close down quite early and yet people still have no problem commuting.
Source: I was there a few months ago and lived in the suburbs of Rome. Besides how many people would go shopping at 4am enough to make a difference?
That being said this is getting off track and we'll leave it at that.

 

[BMO]

Meanwhile in the UK... http://www.tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless

 

[cplchanb]

Meanwhile in the UK... http://www.tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless

STOP It!!! youre making us feel bad.....

Honestly though it just shows over and over again how stuck we are in the 1980s/90s. Smart cards were put into wide use since the early 2000s and maybe even earlier, and all the while our largest system is still using
manual collection jars and "tokens"

 

[innsertnamehere]

Problem is that technology is moving so fast that when PRESTO began design in the early 2000's a lot of tech in common use today simply didn't exist.. contactless was essentially a fantasy. Its the entire region the TTC is getting "second generation PRESTO" as it wants some of the more modern features such as credit card payments and NFC compatibility.

Tech in this sector is moving so quickly however by the time it gets installed it will already be out of date. by the time PRESTO is finally finished installation, wireless technologies will have advanced to the point where simply walking through the faregate is a possible way to pay.