Metrolinx: Other Items (catch all)

[steveintoronto]

^

Taming the lake-lanes between St. Catharines and Toronto could call for lots of cash and patience — and a big ship.

It’s more complex than just pulling up with a boat, said Peter Green, former spokesman for a failed local ferry company, Shaker Cruise Lines. But though many a private operator has tried and failed, Green said it can be done with enough time and cash to allow a clientele to build up. [...]

https://torontosun.com/2013/07/05/c...work/wcm/bf5656c2-7b46-4a84-af33-f9eb052857ac

My question was rhetorical:

You have to wonder if a high-speed ferry wouldn't be cheaper and faster?

It's not practical, but I think we can all agree that neither is this GO train. The answer is GO train, but not this. Offering leftovers when the restaurant is closed isn't a proper meal. Only the desperate Cons could think otherwise.

Gruel not good enough? You ingrates...then starve. Oh but we do have a banquet coming up in a few years...maybe. Meantime the bus looks like a far better option until the Cons and CNs figure out their next heist.

 

[Neutrino]

I was being facetious when I suggested a ferry. But out of curiosity, how long would a ferry take to get from Niagara to downtown TO? And how many people can one "vehicle" seat?

 

[DSC]

I was being facetious when I suggested a ferry. But out of curiosity, how long would a ferry take to get from Niagara to downtown TO? And how many people can one "vehicle" seat?

Your questions have many answers depending on what kind of ferry you are talking about and how large it is.

 

[crs1026]

I was being facetious when I suggested a ferry. But out of curiosity, how long would a ferry take to get from Niagara to downtown TO? And how many people can one "vehicle" seat?

Figure 10-12 knots easy, 20+ knots possible. Going fast is one thing, but docking is time consuming (and needs a big dock!) Bring a credit card for the fuel used. Labour very expensive. You can browse the BC Ferries fleet if you are window shopping.

- Paul

 

[ShonTron]

Figure 10-12 knots easy, 20+ knots possible. Going fast is one thing, but docking is time consuming (and needs a big dock!) Bring a credit card for the fuel used. Labour very expensive. You can browse the BC Ferries fleet if you are window shopping.

- Paul

A well-designed passenger ferry with proper terminals can onload and offload quickly. Ferries are used in passenger service in Halifax and Vancouver. You need a crew of three or four (minus any staff at a snack bar) plus ticketing staff and someone to mind the gates at each terminal. I guess it works in those cities because they're short distance, frequent (every 30 minutes or better) ferry services.

I think the questions about a Lake Ontario ferry are more about logistics of ferry terminal locations. Where would the Toronto terminal be? At the airport terminal at Bathurst Street? At the foot of Bay Street (making for a slower trip through the congested Inner Harbour)? At the Portlands? (A faster boat trip, but a long way downtown). And on the other end, you basically have a choice of Port Weller (lots of land, though on the wrong side of St. Catharines and far from the QEW and 406), or Port Dalhousie (the old NS&T ferry terminal, closer to downtown, though a more congested and busier location), or towards Jordan - great QEW access, but you're going to have to do some serious expropriation. As you go further west, the ferry loses its advantage.

You'd need a place with parking (on the Niagara side, at least), transit connections, and space for a modern ferry terminal.

 

[DSC]

Ferries are used in passenger service in Halifax and Vancouver. You need a crew of three or four (minus any staff at a snack bar) plus ticketing staff and someone to mind the gates at each terminal. I guess it works in those cities because they're short distance, frequent (every 30 minutes or better) ferry services. .

WE also have ferries right here in TO - The Island! Of course, a ferry from Toronto to Niagara is a much longer distance and frequency would certainly not need to be as often.

The TTC actually looked at a Ferry Report in 2008 https://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Co.../Nov_26_2008/Reports/Commuter_Ferry_Servi.pdf

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Hydrofoils - they can get up to 45 kts - but it may not be competitive given price. Also winter ice maybe an issue.

AoD

 

[44 North]

cough...hovercraft...cough. The SR.N4 mkII could do 70 kts. Winter or summer, the beast could theoretically ferry many passengers (and cars) from St Catharines to downtown in 25mins. Bring it back, slim it down. There's your ferry.

 

[Neutrino]

Well, that's the top speed. We would also need to look at the realistic average speed the ferry could sustain. Just like a bus can reach 100 km/h, sure, but the realistic average city speed is around 20 km/h.

 

[lenaitch]

cough...hovercraft...cough. The SR.N4 mkII could do 70 kts. Winter or summer, the beast could theoretically ferry many passengers (and cars) from St Catharines to downtown in 25mins. Bring it back, slim it down. There's your ferry.

The noise complaints, particularly during launch and especially if in the inner harbour, would likely be, um, deafening.

 

[44 North]

The noise complaints, particularly during launch and especially if in the inner harbour, would likely be, um, deafening.

IT'S WHISPER QUIET!

Yeah I wasn't fully being serious. Finding an optimal place to dock it could also be problematic. Still though if using diesel-electric or all-electric engines, and maybe more modern designs, perhaps passenger hovercraft ferries could see a return.

 

[lenaitch]

IT'S WHISPER QUIET!

Yeah I wasn't fully being serious. Finding an optimal place to dock it could also be problematic. Still though if using diesel-electric or all-electric engines, and maybe more modern designs, perhaps passenger hovercraft ferries could see a return.

Perhaps. The majority of the noise comes from the props/fans.

 

[Allandale25]

Recent Toronto Sun article on Metrolinx:

http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/year-of-challenges-and-achievements-for-metrolinx

 

[Adjei]

Metrolinx removing charging stations from GO stations:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/metrolinx-ev-charging-stations-1.4972890

 

[steveintoronto]

On ferries, noise and competence:

GreenPort | New electric ferry unveiled in Sweden
https://www.greenport.com/news101/europe/new-electric-ferry-unveiled-in-sweden
Feb 19, 2015 - Swedish ferry operator, Ballerina, is adding its first ... 'MS Sjövägen' is the result of Ballerina's plan to deliver 'silent, clean and cost-effective ...
Sweden launches world's first quick-charging electric passenger ferry
https://newatlas.com/sweden-movitz-supercharged-electric-ferry/31847/
Apr 29, 2014 - Sweden's Movitz ferry, the first "supercharged" electric passenger ferry ... They will be quieter and cleaner, and vastly more energy efficient than ...
Stockholm's New Electric Ferry Takes Just 10 Minutes to Charge - Wired
https://www.wired.com/2014/04/stockholm-electric-ferry/
Apr 29, 2014 - The Movitz, a 75-foot ferry that can carry 100 passengers, ... where an electric ferrypromises silent, low-emissions cruising and a unique rapid recharging system. ... The project is supported by the Swedish Energy Agency.
Videos

5:14
"Supercharged" electric ferry launched in Sweden
AP Archive
YouTube - Aug 3, 2015

0:53
Lina Ferry in Töreboda, Sweden
k1mk1mk1m
YouTube - Jul 24, 2011

The Swedes have a massive need for ferries especially around the Stockholm Archipelago, and for noise, efficiency and proximity to the density of the waterfront, just consider that the Q800s (Bombardier quiet props @ Porter) have vastly more power and ability to propagate sound than one of these ferries would. Prop hovercraft are now vastly quieter due to advanced prop blade design.

Normally I wouldn't consider the practicality of a ferry from the Niagara Region, but in light of the massive obstacles Canada has placed in her path as per passenger rail, and electing a moron regime in Ontario certainly doesn't help, then surely looking at what more advanced nations do (an intentional dig on transit alone) is in order?

And it's not just the Swedes. The Finns, Germans and others have advanced approaches to this. Beside the business practicality of doing this, speed would/could be an issue. My immediate concern would be price to travellers, but considering what's being charged for GO fare to the Nether Niagaras, this might be competitive.[/quote]