News   Nov 28, 2024
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News   Nov 28, 2024
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Metrolinx: Bombardier Flexity Freedom & Alstom Citadis Spirit LRVs

If the Crosstown cars are to be single end control like TTC and to be 3 cars set all the time, why not scrap that plan and go to a TR design for 3 cars??

Its the first I have heard that Crosstown cars are to be like TTC, except having doors on both sides. Why are they different from the other lines since the other lines will be one or two cars on day ones??

The cost to go to a single 3 car TR train is good, but what is the cost saving pulling a whole train out of service that just pulling a single car out??

Not surprise at the out come since ML marches to their own beat and hell to any other beat.
Don't bring TRs into it, they are an entirely different vehicle. Might as well as for a UPX trainset instead. Apparently (per CPTDB poster) Portland type 4 cars are similar back-to-back pairings, but 3 car sets on Crosstown are gonna look slightly weird with the asymmetry. For now I'm gonna say NBD.
 
Wow. I didn't know that. Designed to go both ways at the same speed but with only one cab. Makes sense if they will only ever operate them in sets of two or more. Although, I wonder why they didn't just get longer trains if they would never operate them small singles, as that would give them greater capacity.
Because when ML ordered them, they were clueless? And still are....

TTC picked 30m for their streetcars and planned all platform lengths for multiple of 30m cars.

Alstom picked the vehicles for Ottawa and they knew longer vehicles were a better idea. Same with BBD and Edmonton.
 
Don't bring TRs into it, they are an entirely different vehicle. Might as well as for a UPX trainset instead. Apparently (per CPTDB poster) Portland type 4 cars are similar back-to-back pairings, but 3 car sets on Crosstown are gonna look slightly weird with the asymmetry. For now I'm gonna say NBD.
I am using the setup of the TR, not the cars themselves and should have been more clear on it. 90m LRV

The standard these days have been 30m cars, but they are becoming the short car since 40-45m are becoming standard. You just keep adding a section to meet your needs with 7 section being very common.

Most lines in Toronto will only need 30m cars, but a few lines will need longer ones, regardless TTC or Metrolinx.
 
I believe the UPX is off the shelf.
UPX isn't a metro system. I'll rephrase it to most "large" transit systems, especially older systems would customize their vehicles to some degree.

Some Canadian examples includes Calgary S200 Series 9 and the Montreal Azur. Even if it's closer to off the shelf like the S200's, Calgary Transit still customized its appearance. UPX is a rare case where they just buy someone else's product and throw it on their line. Maybe those Chinese cities do have all have the same metro trains cause they love to clone stuff.
 
Not sure why the UPX service, with DMUs every 15-minutes isn't a metro system. It's most certainly custromized - I doubt there are luggage racks like that on the other trains.
 
Not sure why the UPX service, with DMUs every 15-minutes isn't a metro system. It's most certainly custromized - I doubt there are luggage racks like that on the other trains.

i think he was referring to the customisation on the scale of the TRs. Bbr literally designed the entire train from scratch around the bogies. UPX trains are off the shelf and racks are really just "accessories"
 
The standard these days have been 30m cars, but they are becoming the short car since 40-45m are becoming standard. You just keep adding a section to meet your needs with 7 section being very common
I think the counterargument to this is that longer vehicles mean yards are more difficult to construct, maintenance facilities have to be longer etc. In the subway system, a track which held 2 x T1 pairs is now useless to hold a 6 car T1. (I think I read this is also an issue at Greenwood which will force the second Line 2 yard issue when Line 1 gets shiny new and Line 2 gets the TR castoffs?)
 
Not sure why the UPX service, with DMUs every 15-minutes isn't a metro system. It's most certainly custromized - I doubt there are luggage racks like that on the other trains.
We get caught up in headway when its become X time to say what it is or isn't when in fact, we have far better headway than most places around the world for x system.

You can find luggage racks on various system to the point Gold Coast has added places for surf boards to be store on top of other things.

As systems move to larger cars, yards and maintenance buildings will become an issue and TTC is no exceptions. TTC is already looking for a new yard with it being out in the west end. Then look at what taking [lace at Wilson yard.

If the SRT conversion had gone LRT as plan, there was to be a new yard east of the current yard.

Based on past track record of TTC, line 2 always gets the hand down from line 1 and that will have major issues for Greenwood. You never know if TTC will stick to the TR for Line 2 since there will be more than they need for the line in the first place.

There is nothing wrong having a yard with no loop if the cars are to run in one direction in the first place and Crosstown is no exception.

As noted, even though cars are to be off the shelf model, each systems like something different than the other systems.

The reason UPX cars are the same as SMART cars is because Metrolinx had no time to look around and they were FRA approved in the first place. Look what happen locking onto someone else order who still has issues with the order and not in service yet.

Even railways these days have issues with their yards since car where only 30-40' long when yards were built and train length were only about 60 cars. Today, we have cars up to 89' long and train length from 100-200 car long that can requires 2-4 tracks to makeup or break down to the point new yards are being built up to 6 miles long to handle these longer trains.
 
Either this month or June, Metrolinx will be making announcement regarding its order with BBD.

What is clear at this time, the current court ruling and contract with BBD is only for Toronto cars only. All other Metrolinx cars are an option to the point they are DOA.

What I was told today, both Hamilton and Mississauga cars subject to changes in the coming weeks, will be left up to the P3 bidders.

As I was told, stay tune for the announcement.

Added:
I should note, by take on the info is "so long BBD", but could be wrong.
 
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Either this month or June, Metrolinx will be making announcement regarding its order with BBD.

What is clear at this time, the current court ruling and contract with BBD is only for Toronto cars only. All other Metrolinx cars are an option to the point they are DOA.

What I was told today, both Hamilton and Mississauga cars subject to changes in the coming weeks, will be left up to the P3 bidders.

As I was told, stay tune for the announcement.

Added:
I should note, by take on the info is "so long BBD", but could be wrong.

If that's the outcome, it's a silly bit of face saving for ML. Small number of cars, and by the time they are due, Bombardier will be delivering on schedule. And ML/TTC will have a huge Flexity fleet between Finch, Crosstown, and the broad gauge lines anyways.

If ML is unhappy with its relationship with Bombardier, they need to look at the thing in totality. The GO bilevel fleet, the GO operating arm, the TR fleet..... It's like a couple separating after they have had several kids together. There is no prospect that ML can go its separate way and never have to talk to Bombardier again.....they will be making many decisions jointly for a long time to come.

TTC will have its remedy by suing for liquidated damages, possibly resulting in some "free" add-on vehicles. If the injunction hearing is any indication, ML's case in litigation may not be winnable.

It makes sense to look at whether Bombardier should be penalised in upcoming orders.....GO RER EMU's, and DRL subway cars being two.....but those are a long ways off.

- Paul
 
If ML is unhappy with its relationship with Bombardier, they need to look at the thing in totality. The GO bilevel fleet, the GO operating arm, the TR fleet..... It's like a couple separating after they have had several kids together. There is no prospect that ML can go its separate way and never have to talk to Bombardier again.....they will be making many decisions jointly for a long time to come.
Especially if BBD merges with one of the other large players.

It's not that I want BBD to be blocked on future projects, no, I just want to see them honestly held to account for their screw-ups. And I don't mean the small print penalties for late delivery in the contracts. I want ML or the mayor or premier to say on this or that future project we are excluding BBD from the tender, but that they're welcome to bid on future projects if they please.

Of course BBD's lawyers would have a heyday challenging that they're being excluded. So some other means is needed to show these guys from BBD that they can't screw around.
 
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