Metrolinx: Bombardier Flexity Freedom & Alstom Citadis Spirit LRVs

[crs1026]

Who is that 50 km/hr sign at 90 seconds for? The Ottawa light metro vehicle?

Nice catch...... looks like it was left over from the busway that was there before the LRT was built.

It appears that signal bungalow moved east, but the shadow of the sign is visible just below the bungalow shown in Streetview.

- Paul

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Nice catch...... looks like it was left over from the busway that was there before the LRT was built.

It appears that signal bungalow moved east, but the shadow of the sign is visible just below the bungalow shown in Streetview.
View attachment 176786

- Paul

You can see the sign in it's former life around 5:30 in this video

Very little about the original busway was reused around the via rail station, as they needed to straighten the curves to keep the trains at a high speed.

Another odd leftover artifact in that area is the "bridge over the grassy field", since they shifted the alignment over but didn't demolish the old bridge

 

[drum118]

What going on in Kingston??? At the rate of cars being built in Kingston, no one is going to have cars when the lines open up. Edmonton has only seen one car so far, Metrolinx only got 3 cars by Feb 1 in place of 6 and TTC has seen only 2 cars so far that were to be ship in Oct, but only arrived Dec 17 and Feb 19.

I guess cars that were to be built in Kingston are now going to be built in Thunder Bay to help deal with the other 2 orders. BBD stills has to built 69 TTC cars over the next 9 months and BBD track record said it will be 2 quarter of 2020 before TTC has them, not the end of 2019.

Alstom is going to have to gear up sooner than plan to have cars for Crosstown Line on opening date.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Another train spotting vid from Ottawa:

 

[nfitz]

Alstom is going to have to gear up sooner than plan to have cars for Crosstown Line on opening date.

I don't think using Alstom cars on the Crosstown line isn't an option as far as I understand. They are the wrong dimensions for the maintenance facility. Also I don't see how that works with Bombardier already holding the maintenance contract.

How many of the 6 cars have now been delivered - there's been reports of more deliveries, but I haven't seen a count? Has Metrolinx even approved Bombardier to start delivering beyond 6 yet? I'd think they'd be wanting to put some serious mileage on the first six first.

The lack of TTC cars is disturbing ... if I was Bombardier I'd be moving as much of the remaining TTC production back to Thunder Bay as I could. Now that TTC has cancelled the option for the remaining 60 cars, and is already suing for the contractual maximums, I'm not sure what incentive Bombardier has on trying to make sure all 204 cars are delivered by year-end.

We've been told for months that they are close to an agreement on the penalties. I wouldn't be surprised if that includes a new deadline for deliveries sometime in mid-2020.

There does indeed seem to be something very wrong in Kingston!

 

[cplchanb]

I don't think using Alstom cars on the Crosstown line isn't an option as far as I understand. They are the wrong dimensions for the maintenance facility. Also I don't see how that works with Bombardier already holding the maintenance contract.

How many of the 6 cars have now been delivered - there's been reports of more deliveries, but I haven't seen a count? Has Metrolinx even approved Bombardier to start delivering beyond 6 yet? I'd think they'd be wanting to put some serious mileage on the first six first.

The lack of TTC cars is disturbing ... if I was Bombardier I'd be moving as much of the remaining TTC production back to Thunder Bay as I could. Now that TTC has cancelled the option for the remaining 60 cars, and is already suing for the contractual maximums, I'm not sure what incentive Bombardier has on trying to make sure all 204 cars are delivered by year-end.

We've been told for months that they are close to an agreement on the penalties. I wouldn't be surprised if that includes a new deadline for deliveries sometime in mid-2020.

There does indeed seem to be something very wrong in Kingston!

Iirc the alstom cars are meant for the finch lrt

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Iirc the alstom cars are meant for the finch lrt

They are, but aren't they also supposed to be an emergency alternative for the crosstown? Or did that plan fizzle with all the lawsuits

 

[nfitz]

They are, but aren't they also supposed to be an emergency alternative for the crosstown? Or did that plan fizzle with all the lawsuits

That plan fizzled when Metrolinx lost in court and ended up negotiating to pay Bombardier penalties to reduce the contracted number of cars, rather than completely terminating the contract.

Though no one ever explained how the longer Alstom cars were going to work on Eglinton, with the carhouse already under construction and Bombardier being part of the consortium to do maintenance. Gross systemic incompetence at Metrolinx I suspect is the explanation of how anyone thought that was going to work!

 

[Kyle Campbell]

I don't think using Alstom cars on the Crosstown line isn't an option as far as I understand. They are the wrong dimensions for the maintenance facility. Also I don't see how that works with Bombardier already holding the maintenance contract.

How many of the 6 cars have now been delivered - there's been reports of more deliveries, but I haven't seen a count? Has Metrolinx even approved Bombardier to start delivering beyond 6 yet? I'd think they'd be wanting to put some serious mileage on the first six first.

The lack of TTC cars is disturbing ... if I was Bombardier I'd be moving as much of the remaining TTC production back to Thunder Bay as I could. Now that TTC has cancelled the option for the remaining 60 cars, and is already suing for the contractual maximums, I'm not sure what incentive Bombardier has on trying to make sure all 204 cars are delivered by year-end.

We've been told for months that they are close to an agreement on the penalties. I wouldn't be surprised if that includes a new deadline for deliveries sometime in mid-2020.

There does indeed seem to be something very wrong in Kingston!

That plan fizzled when Metrolinx lost in court and ended up negotiating to pay Bombardier penalties to reduce the contracted number of cars, rather than completely terminating the contract.

Though no one ever explained how the longer Alstom cars were going to work on Eglinton, with the carhouse already under construction and Bombardier being part of the consortium to do maintenance. Gross systemic incompetence at Metrolinx I suspect is the explanation of how anyone thought that was going to work!

The maintenance part isn't as much of a barrier as you think, Ottawa's current Lint trains are maintained by Bombardier. The carhouse though is a bigger barrier, but had the whole thing gone through they probably should have used the 30m version of the Citadis spirit rather than the 48m version in Ottawa to match dimensions

 

[W. K. Lis]

The Crosstown LRT stations will fit about 3 Bombardier Flexity Freedom (95.7m in total) versus 2 Alstrom Citadis Spirit (96.8m in total). Just have to make sure the doors open within the station box or surface stop.

From 2017, at this link:

How do Toronto's light rail vehicles compare? It's Bombardier versus Alstom

After a protracted dispute with Bombardier about delays to its light rail vehicle order for the Eglinton Crosstown LRT, Metrolinx has taken the drastic step of placing an order for cars with another company.

Transportation Minister Steven Del Duca announced Friday that Metrolinx, which is the provincial agency in charge of transit planning for the GTHA, has inked a deal to buy 61 vehicles from the French firm Alstom at a cost of $528 million.

The transit agency hasn’t cancelled its $770-million purchase from Bombardier, which as a result of a lawsuit brought by the manufacturer is now tied up in a dispute resolution process. But Del Duca said allowing both purchases to go ahead simultaneously would provide Metrolinx with a backup fleet that guarantees it will have enough vehicles to open the Crosstown line by 2021.

Del Duca called it “a creative and prudent approach to dealing with a less than ideal situation.”

Bombardier maintains that Metrolinx had no need to seek another supplier, and says it will be able to supply all 182 cars the agency ordered in 2010, 76 of which would run on the Crosstown line.


In a statement released Friday the Montreal-based company said it had addressed its previous manufacturing problems and was “ready, able and willing to deliver these vehicles to the people of Toronto on time.”

The vehicles being purchased from Alstom are its Citadis Spirit range, the same model the company is building for Ottawa’s Confederation Line. Seventeen of the vehicles will be used on the planned Finch West LRT in Toronto, while 44 will be deployed on the Crosstown if it’s determined Bombardier can’t deliver.

If Bombardier does supply the cars for Crosstown, Metrolinx will use the 44 vehicles on the Hurontario LRT in Mississauga.

Should the Alstom cars end up on the Crosstown line, it could lead to significant changes to the $5.3-billion LRT project. The Alstom vehicles are 50 per cent longer than Bombardier’s, which could necessitate modifications to the Crosstown infrastructure, including a storage yard that is already partially built.

Metrolinx is also buying fewer of the larger cars, which could mean changes to how frequently they operate.

Alstom Citadis Spirit

From link.

Bombardier Flexity Freedom

From link.

Any adjustments to the carbarns or yards can still be done now before the storage facilities fully open.

 

[nfitz]

Any adjustments to the carbarns or yards can still be done now before the storage facilities fully open.

Metrolinx declared the yard/barn for Eglinton substantially complete almost six months ago!

Those numbers are somewhat out of date. For example, Metrolinx negotiated a much higher cost of vehicle for the Flexitiy's with Bombardier when they reduced the order.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1048230875920551936

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Another Citadis train spotting vid from the web

https://twitter.com/x/status/1109212190379294722

 

[drum118]

By late Summer or early fall, we should/could see BBD cars leaving/entering the yard and do some testing underground with luck. 2 tracks leading to the station from the yard and a single track for the westbound before the station.

Tracks in place coming out of the yard and waiting for tracks to be install on the concrete road bed at Mount Dennis Station and the elevated bridge over Black Creek Dr. A small section of deck has to be pour to connect the portal to the bridge. Some retaining wall still has to be pour as well installing the poles and then the overhead.

If Metrolinx is thinking on having a car on display at Mount Dennis Station on May 25-26 for opening day, they will most likely pull the car to the station if they can't get power to the overhead. Then, would it be safe to have visitors accessing the station then??

 

[Allandale25]

^ There's an opening day planned on May 25-26th? Is this being advertised somewhere?

 

[drum118]

^ There's an opening day planned on May 25-26th? Is this being advertised somewhere?

I said "IF" and something some have talked about that could happen. Don't know what TTC planning this year for Open Door on May 25-26.

Mount Dennis station is the most advance station in the system and next to the yard that would give the public a first hand view what coming their way in a few years. Grading and backfilling required at the Weston Rd entrance, as well a sidewalk.

What I saw on Sunday, looks like the elevator is being install at the east entrance to get to the centre platform.