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Metrolinx: Bombardier Flexity Freedom & Alstom Citadis Spirit LRVs

alexanderglista said:
Wait why hasn't Metrolinx got one yet then? Their order was first.
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Metrolinx needs to be willing to accept delivery in order for them to be delivered.

Evidence that Bombardier was never the problem is pretty clear in the renegotiated contract (where Metrolinx paid the same amount for fewer vehicles).
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
And Metrolinx will, never admit it as they want others to take the blame for them
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What do you mean? The contract amounts are public.

The original 182-car contract with Bombardier was for $770 million ($4.23 million each). It was reduced to just the 76 Eglinton cars for $392 million ($5.16 million each), this equates to a $70.5 million penalty that Metrolinx paid to Bombardier, to cancel the remaining 106 cars.

This doesn't include the extra cost being paid to Alstom, who are charging more than even Bombardier's revised price!
 
rbt said:
Metrolinx needs to be willing to accept delivery in order for them to be delivered.

Evidence that Bombardier was never the problem is pretty clear in the renegotiated contract (where Metrolinx paid the same amount for fewer vehicles).
Click to expand...

They wouldn't have changed the contract and paid more for Alstom just for fun, they really did feel that Bombardier deliver was at risk, and given the streetcar and Ion delays it's definitely looked at risk

That being said, what was Metrolinx's plan if the prototype had been delivered on time when all this began? There wouldn't have been a facility for it, nor track to run it on, but the whole contract dispute started with that one vehicle.
 
Kyle Campbell said:
That being said, what was Metrolinx's plan if the prototype had been delivered on time when all this began? There wouldn't have been a facility for it, nor track to run it on, but the whole contract dispute started with that one vehicle.
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Not sure what you mean.

Bombardier had the Eglinton prototype ready for delivery back in 2016, and Metrolinx simply refused to take delivery of it, finally shopping it Millhaven in November 2016.
 
nfitz said:
Not sure what you mean.

Bombardier had the Eglinton prototype ready for delivery back in 2016, and Metrolinx simply refused to take delivery of it, finally shopping it Millhaven in November 2016.
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The prototype was supposed to be delivered in 2014 and was not ready until 2016 which was the supposed reason for trying to cancel the contract. What I meant is if it had been ready at the original date, what was Metrolinx actually planning to do with it?
 
Kyle Campbell said:
They wouldn't have changed the contract and paid more for Alstom just for fun, they really did feel that Bombardier deliver was at risk, and given the streetcar and Ion delays it's definitely looked at risk
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Oh, I definitely agree that Metrolinx staff messed up royally when writing the Crosstown contract (years after placing the LRV order) which had Metrolinx take on massive penalty fees for failure of Metrolinx to deliver LRVs to the project. It really showed how inexperienced an agency Metrolinx is.

Metrolinx wrote themselves into a bad place and likely a few people on their legal team should have been fired over that.

Presenting it as Bombardiers fault was a "Cover Your Ass" manoeuvre and only succeeded in the press. The renegotiated agreement demonstrates pretty clearly that Metrolinx had zero leverage over Bombardier; Bombardier will make much more profit off the new contract than the old one in exchange for accepting the blame quietly.


The piece I don't understand is why the conservatives didn't turn it into a scandal at the time. They've left Presto alone too. Of course, as it turns out they didn't need any more scandals to win the election but I was surprised.
 
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Reecemartin said:
A little confused, how long are the Citadis units, I assumed they were always going to be run as single trains?
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The Citadis as used in Ottawa is about 160 feet long. They will generally be run in pairs there.

This same vehicle is what Metrolinx has purchased for use on the lines here. They can run in pairs (or threes), but the assumption is that they will generally run singly on any of Finch West, Hurontario or Hamilton.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
^ When the Stage 2 Trillium Line enters revenue service in 2021, it will use high efficiency diesel powered Stadler FLIRT (Fast Light Innovative Regional Train) vehicles. These trains are 80 metres in length and are approximately double the passenger capacity of the current Trillium Line vehicles. The Stadler FLIRT meets the highest rated international environmental and performance standards for its class of vehicle and offers the potential for future electric conversion. In addition, the FLIRT model will have four doors for passenger boarding, further supporting AODA compliance and providing an improved customer experience.

https://ottawa.ca/en/news/city-secures-funding-extend-o-train-trillium-line-heart-riverside-south
 
Kyle Campbell said:
The prototype was supposed to be delivered in 2014 and was not ready until 2016 which was the supposed reason for trying to cancel the contract. What I meant is if it had been ready at the original date, what was Metrolinx actually planning to do with it?
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They weren't.

Part of the reason the judge ruled against Metrolinx, and enforced the contract. Because there'd been no impact on Metrolinx from the delay in not having the vehicle ready.
 
Interesting feature of the Stadler vehicles is that the diesel engines are in a separate module in the centre which I believe would just be removed if the line were electrified. Or it could be swapped with a battery module I guess. Or some hydrogen fuel cells :)
 
steveintoronto said:
^ When the Stage 2 Trillium Line enters revenue service in 2021, it will use high efficiency diesel powered Stadler FLIRT (Fast Light Innovative Regional Train) vehicles. These trains are 80 metres in length and are approximately double the passenger capacity of the current Trillium Line vehicles. The Stadler FLIRT meets the highest rated international environmental and performance standards for its class of vehicle and offers the potential for future electric conversion. In addition, the FLIRT model will have four doors for passenger boarding, further supporting AODA compliance and providing an improved customer experience.

https://ottawa.ca/en/news/city-secures-funding-extend-o-train-trillium-line-heart-riverside-south
Click to expand...

For some reason, everyone reported that the new FLIRT trains will have 4 doors, but they'll actually have 8. The trains will be 4 cars long and have 2 doors per car (per side, that is).
Apparently only two cars could fit on the display board, so I guess that's why they ended up reporting 4 doors...
 
More importantly
Since the flirt has been approved to purchase in Ottawa, this can no doubt pave the way for its bigger sister, kiss, for go rer
 
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