King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[reaperexpress]

Duplicate bicycle signal heads are not required by regulation, but are listed as a "should" in OTM book 12A.

Your design might work well with a white bar transit signal atop the regular yellow signal, and then the two bike signals.

Agreed. Best to minimize confusion between the transit green and the vehicular traffic green. Mount the bicycle signals somewhere near the pedestrian signals. Otherwise, a great suggestion reaper!

I agree that it would be better to have white-bar transit signals, but as I have explained before here, implementing them would require major changes such as to the HTA and/or to every other white bar signal in the City, since currently a vertical white bar in Toronto means "Turn left or right, but do not go straight".

Further explanations here:
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...-transit-priority.19816/page-154#post-1279258
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...-transit-priority.19816/page-154#post-1279308

Like I said in my last post, this signal design is not supposed to be the best possible design, it's just a design that is possible right now without any changes or exemptions from operating policies or legislation.

Here's another option which is perfectly compliant with current regulations and standards:

Notes:
I think the guidance from OTM Book 12A is more applicable if the bicycle signal were the only signals for the approach (for example along a standalone bicycle path). In this case, they display basically the same thing as the two Transit Signals so there's no need for a fourth redundant signal. Also, if I'm not mistaken, book 12A predates the 2016 HTA amendment we're talking about so at the time of writing duplication was actually a legal requirement.

Also note that bicycle-shaped Bicycle Signal lenses were also legalized in 2016 with the same HTA amendment.

 

[reaperexpress]

https://stevemunro.ca/2018/08/16/king-street-update-july-2018/#more-21043

Some highlights:

"Although we are now into the summer when conflicts with pedestrians and space constraints from recent takeovers of curb lanes with a variety of artworks and seating areas, travel times on King have not been affected. In fact, thanks to the re-activation of Transit Priority Signalling (TSP) at various locations on July 7, travel times have actually dropped during some periods."

"Where TSP is active, streetcar operators approaching an intersection with a farside stop will stay at a higher speed on the approach because they are facing a green signal they can expect to stay clear. “Double stops” are reduced, and even when they do occur, they can be shortened by pre-emption of the cross street’s green time when a transit vehicle is waiting."

"The westbound approach to Jarvis stays at a higher speed and does not exhibit as much effect from double-stops in July as in June. There is a similar effect at Church and at York. Travel speeds are also better at other locations by varying amounts."

"Some of the locations with higher speeds are not adjacent to signals where TSP was activated (eastbound at Bay has no TSP), but improvements in double-stop delays are evident at Simcoe, Church and Jarvis."

(The improvement eastbound at Bay is because concurrently with re-activating TSP, the signals were re-timed to provide a green wave eastbound from York to Bay - one of the few pairs of signals with no stops in between.)

 

[steveintoronto]

^And even though a slight point, it's an important one none-the-less: The *psychology* of 'vehicle remaining at speed' with a "wave of green" is such that it multiplies the perception of smooth, uninterrupted travel to being even 'faster'....not in actual velocity, but in being 'expedited' from one stop to the next...*even if the vehicle speed is slowed slightly to attain that*!

An analogy is to be seen in drivers racing up to red lights...lol...(don't get me started on that, as drivers will actually race cyclists to the next red light). As much as the velocity between lights can be quite high, the overall *throughput velocity* stays determined by the sequence/cycle of the lights.

Good train and plane control does exactly this, to maximize the available 'slots' smoothly and efficiently. There's still far more that could be achieved on King with even more intelligent signalling and control.

 

[steveintoronto]

Cross posted to the ION string. Comparison to the King model is unavoidable to 'see what works well and what can work better':

...As you are well aware, all TTC streetcars and buses are equipped with radio transponders to trigger the 400 signals equipped with Transit Signal Priority (TSP). It remains to be seen whether ION's TSP is more or less effective than the TTC's. Now that TSP is back on in the King Pilot, I encourage you to stand around one of the TSP-equipped intersections and note the proportion of streetcars which get red lights, then consider that each light is red about 50% of the time. I watched streetcars King & John for half an hour and in that time only one late streetcar got a red light. Without TSP that should have been about fifteen.
[...]

@KevinT and @reaperexpress or anyone else availed of the details:

Is the ION 'light changing priority' an over-ride no matter where the approaching signals are in their cycle, or is it a 'cycle extension' priority?
That could/would be a major difference of the King Pilot v the ION model.

Cross posted this to ION string.

 

[robmausser]

I agree that it would be better to have white-bar transit signals, but as I have explained before here, implementing them would require major changes such as to the HTA and/or to every other white bar signal in the City, since currently a vertical white bar in Toronto means "Turn left or right, but do not go straight".

Further explanations here:
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...-transit-priority.19816/page-154#post-1279258
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...-transit-priority.19816/page-154#post-1279308

Like I said in my last post, this signal design is not supposed to be the best possible design, it's just a design that is possible right now without any changes or exemptions from operating policies or legislation.

Here's another option which is perfectly compliant with current regulations and standards:
View attachment 153689

View attachment 153690

Notes:
I think the guidance from OTM Book 12A is more applicable if the bicycle signal were the only signals for the approach (for example along a standalone bicycle path). In this case, they display basically the same thing as the two Transit Signals so there's no need for a fourth redundant signal. Also, if I'm not mistaken, book 12A predates the 2016 HTA amendment we're talking about so at the time of writing duplication was actually a legal requirement.

Also note that bicycle-shaped Bicycle Signal lenses were also legalized in 2016 with the same HTA amendment.

I dont think the Transit signals should be green or arrows personally.

Drivers will just see the green arrow and assume its for them.

Most people driving dont actually read signs

 

[robmausser]

FYI, your suggestion prohibits pedestrians from walking along King, given the right arrow gives turning traffic priority over conflicting traffic.

Well, maybe they should be given priority.

Give a quick light sequence to only cars to allow them to turn right with prioirity over pedestrians and bikes.

It will prevent pedestrian and bike accidents, and I mean, we are stopping cars from using King, its a good compromise that will encourage motorists to turn right versus go straight illegally.

 

[Tulse]

Give a quick light sequence to only cars to allow them to turn right with prioirity over pedestrians and bikes.

Isn't that the arrangement now? When I'm walking along King around Church, the traffic gets a green right-turn arrow and the pedestrian signal remains red, then the green arrow disappears and the Walk signal lights up.

 

[raptor]

Isn't that the arrangement now? When I'm walking along King around Church, the traffic gets a green right-turn arrow and the pedestrian signal remains red, then the green arrow disappears and the Walk signal lights up.

But there still is the regular green light for cars, which drivers understand it as if they can proceed straight forward.

 

[steveintoronto]

But there still is the regular green light for cars, which drivers understand it as if they can proceed straight forward.

I don't think so, at least at the same time, but whether it does or not, the point is moot: There's at least one set of lights and/or sequence missing to make it work. Under the Pilot section of the HTA, the City could have applied to use whatever seemed fit for "up to 12 years" as a 'pilot'. What seems eminently sensible is to adopt (with some fine tuning, as the TTC uses the vertical white bar to signify something different...probably a mistake in protocol years ago) is what other Ontario conurbations are already using, namely K/W and Ottawa.

It all seems so incredibly logical and simple...but that seems to count for nothing to City Hall.

 

[KevinT]

Is the ION 'light changing priority' an over-ride no matter where the approaching signals are in their cycle, or is it a 'cycle extension' priority?
That could/would be a major difference of the King Pilot v the ION model.

Unfortunately I don't know any technical details of the priority system that ION will be getting. I know it was said at the OMSF open house by a GrandLinq staffer that the ION vehicles 'will never see a red light', but for all I know that could have been an inside joke related to the fact that they get horizontal white bars rather than red lights.

What I've observed during testing is that the aspect signals (white bars) are always horizontal unless a vehicle (any sort of vehicle) is in the right of way, then a vertical bar becomes the first part of the cycle ahead of car and pedestrian traffic. Its a form of priority, but not the carefully timed waves that support the 'will never see a red light' comment. This week I even saw a train overshoot the inductive loop and get stuck without a signal, it had to radio for permission to back up in order to trigger the loop and resume its journey.

Thanks to foot dragging by Metrolinx on the specs (since ION was a tack-on order to theirs) the in-cab communications portion of the signalling system (referred to as 'specialized equipment' in all the recent media articles) to support ATP and schedule adherence isn't installed yet in any of the 8 vehicles on-property (although that's in progress on some of them now). Once this equipment is in place, tested, and active, then perhaps the dream of the 'white bar wave' will be realized. I'd certainly love to see it!

 

[nfitz]

But there still is the regular green light for cars, which drivers understand it as if they can proceed straight forward.

There is certainly confusion for drivers. I watched someone with New York plates behind a streetcar, run through one, and then slow down before the next, and you could see him trying to make sense of all the signage, finally turning right.

A couple of times getting out of a westbound Flexity at Jarvis, I've made a fairly neutral comment to the car driver behind that they'd run through a no-entry. And they both apologized, and did U-Turns! Which very much surprised me.

There are some (including taxis) that blatantly violate this. But some are just confused (and having the car in front of you blatantly violate it doesn't help!)

The key thing however, is that though some are violating, most are not even getting on King in the first place! There's a LOT less traffic than there used to be.

I took a rare (for me) westbound 504 all the way from Sherbourne to Alantic the other day about 6:30 pm. In the past such trips have been horrific. One one particularly slow occasion, I actually bailed at Church, walked to Union, caught a Lakeshore West GO to Exhibition, walked back to King/Atlantic, and boarded a 504 westbound ... with my original car still behind me around Bathurst! It was certainly quicker to walk!

But the other day, looking at the data points in Google Timeline - it was 16 minutes from Church to Bathurst! And only 6 more minutes to Sudbury (though Bathurst to Sudbury was never particularly bad). Plus we were very full, as there'd been a short gap in front of us, which I'd think would only slow us down ...

It's a stunning difference! I only wish I had Google Timeline running a couple of years ago, before the pilot.

I did see 3 or 4 cars running through. But I also saw police westbound just past both Spadina and Bathurst having pulled someone over and seemed to be ticketing them; so there is some enforcement ... which I seldom notice on King East near Jarvis - where I'm much more likely to be.

Here's a couple of the offenders. I have no idea which company the orange taxi was even part of - had 1053 painted on it, but no company; he ran about 3 lights. The other car I think did 4. Gosh, that's 8 demerit points! Gosh, look at all those bicycles!

 

[reaperexpress]

I dont think the Transit signals should be green or arrows personally.

Drivers will just see the green arrow and assume its for them.

Most people driving dont actually read signs

Like I've said about a thousand times, including in the post you're quoting, I agree. However as I also stated in that post - and as I explained in the posts I linked - that is not possible within the timeframe of the King Pilot.

This is a pilot that is happening right now and will end very soon. We don't have time to be messing around with applying for a "pilot project" exemption under the HTA, changing the HTA or changing every existing white-bar transit signal in the City.

 

[ShonTron]

The TTC just announced the service changes during TIFF.

TIFF's pathetic "Festival Street" - which is mainly set up for their sponsors to advertise their stuff - will shut King Street down all day from Thursday September 6 to early morning Monday September 10. Then there will be more closures on Monday afternoon and evening (including 4:30 p.m. to 5:30 p.m. at the height of rush hour) and Tuesday evening (again including 4:30 p.m. to 5:30 p.m.) for "red carpet events."

That's four PM rush hours ruined.

I am sick of the city just rolling over to whatever TIFF wants. The streetcars should be able to go through at any time, just block any other traffic from the section between University and Peter. There are plenty of alternative places for TIFF to use for their sponsors, like David Pecaut Square.

http://www.ttc.ca/Service_Advisories/Route_diversions/TIFF_2018.jsp

 

[steveintoronto]

I am sick of the city just rolling over to whatever TIFF wants.

The 'Weinstein' effect is more pervasive than the participants care to admit. They are he. But c'mon, the chance for the burgers, whoops, burghers to slap mustard and relish on having their pictures taken with the Gods is not to be missed for the sake of the hoi polloi. Let the hoi polloi eat cake of their own.

 

[nfitz]

Good grief. Time to publicly start taking those that attend TIFF to task about this.