Is LRT's repuation damaged permanently?

[denfromoakvillemilton]

So people are arguing that we should extend the Sheppard subway and not force those miserable LRTs n them but yet you have ridership dropping. Yeah that's a real smart idea.

You they only want subways because everyone else has them. Which is ridiculous.

 

[rbt]

The Daniels Building Company has built a six-tower development, called NY Towers, north of the 401 between Bayview and Bessarion; Arc Condominiums on the northeast corner of Bayview/Sheppard; and terraced condos just east of their NY Towers. Shane Baghai has also built a multi-tower development in the area.

Right. 6 towers, 300 to 400 people per tower (2400 people) and transit is getting about a 20% modal split; so 500 of those residents ride transit.

Even if they all use the subway to get to Sheppard & Yonge, it's still less than 1 trains worth of riders per day. A perfect example of Sheppard still being very overbuilt even after the billions of dollars worth of private development.

 

[spider]

Most posters to this thread are Transit boosters, especially if the preferred mode is on rails and on a road allowance.

I suggest that you have to realize that almost everyone else makes no distinction between a streetcar line and an LRT. To them, if it is on rails and on the street it is a streetcar. A dedicated ROW doesn't make it better, it makes it worse.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Most posters to this thread are Transit boosters, especially if the preferred mode is on rails and on a road allowance.

I suggest that you have to realize that almost everyone else makes no distinction between a streetcar line and an LRT. To them, if it is on rails and on the street it is a streetcar. A dedicated ROW doesn't make it better, it makes it worse.

But most people were like this only because of the fact subways became too expensive. It seems some people (not you) are all about cutting stuff until it affects them.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I think mid-ride development along the entire street is way more appropriate for the suburbs than a bunch of glass towers at a few intersections that neighbourhoods routinely oppose.

Personally I think that kind of development all along the 14km stretch if Sheppard is unrealistic. Perhaps on Eglinton it would work.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Most posters to this thread are Transit boosters, especially if the preferred mode is on rails and on a road allowance.

I suggest that you have to realize that almost everyone else makes no distinction between a streetcar line and an LRT. To them, if it is on rails and on the street it is a streetcar. A dedicated ROW doesn't make it better, it makes it worse.

1. What the heck is a transit booster
2. People don't give a damn about the mode of transit they use as long as it's fast. Hence the reason that you still have people taking the 510 Spadina to get into downtown or using a bus when there's a parallel subeay route 700 meters north. They'll use whatever method of transit as long as it gets them there fast. Period.

 

[W. K. Lis]

1. What the heck is a transit booster
2. People don't give a damn about the mode of transit they use as long as it's fast. Hence the reason that you still have people taking the 510 Spadina to get into downtown or using a bus when there's a parallel subeay route 700 meters north. They'll use whatever method of transit as long as it gets them there fast. Period.

When the buses replaced the 510 Spadina, I bypassed using the 510. Still don't use the 510, if I have to get to the Metro Convention Centre, I use the subway instead. Once the streetcars return to Queens Quay and/or Union, I'll return to using the 510 for its entire length. Until then, I'll only use the 510 streetcar to get to Queen Street.

 

[salsa]

Personally I think that kind of development all along the 14km stretch if Sheppard is unrealistic. Perhaps on Eglinton it would work.

It probably won't fully develop, but nevertheless this is the kind of development that should be encouraged. On Sheppard West between Bathurst and Downsview stn there has been tons of mid-rise development over the last few years despite the lack of rapid transit. There's also the Sheppard-Warden Avenue Study that can help make this happen.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

When the buses replaced the 510 Spadina, I bypassed using the 510. Still don't use the 510, if I have to get to the Metro Convention Centre, I use the subway instead. Once the streetcars return to Queens Quay and/or Union, I'll return to using the 510 for its entire length. Until then, I'll only use the 510 streetcar to get to Queen Street.

That's exactly my point. Spider seems to think that people won't take light rail because "OMG subways are better!". In reality, the mode of transport is completely irrelevant. People would take a gondola if it got them places fast enough.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

It probably won't fully develop, but nevertheless this is the kind of development that should be encouraged. On Sheppard West between Bathurst and Downsview stn there has been tons of mid-rise development over the last few years despite the lack of rapid transit. There's also the Sheppard-Warden Avenue Study that can help make this happen.

That's exactly my point. Spider seems to think that people won't take light rail because "OMG subways are better!". In reality, the mode of transport is completely irrelevant. People would take a gondola if it got them places fast enough.

Really hope you guys are correct, because the loudest voices always win when it comes to this. Hence all the sun whiners when it comes to suburban subways.

 

[andrewpmk]

That's exactly my point. Spider seems to think that people won't take light rail because "OMG subways are better!". In reality, the mode of transport is completely irrelevant. People would take a gondola if it got them places fast enough.

People don't like having to take a subway then a short subway that is left permanently unfinished and then take a light rail line (and another subway if they want to go to Scarborough Centre).

 

[Voltz]

People don't like having to take a subway then a short subway that is left permanently unfinished and then take a light rail line (and another subway if they want to go to Scarborough Centre).

But they'd be fine if it was BRT instead of LRT? Some here seem to be claiming that.

 

[BurlOak]

But they'd be fine if it was BRT instead of LRT? Some here seem to be claiming that.

Well its probably true.
BRT would be viewed as a temporary improvement until the subway can be finished.
The LRT is viewed as something whose purpose is to permanently kill the subway.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

An honerable goal indeed

 

[andrewpmk]

Well its probably true.
BRT would be viewed as a temporary improvement until the subway can be finished.
The LRT is viewed as something whose purpose is to permanently kill the subway.

BRT would be very overcrowded of course, but at least it would allow the 190 bus to remain in operation. With the Sheppard LRT anyone going from Don Mills to STC gets to transfer yet again. It is much easier to view as a temporary solution (e.g. York University busway).