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Intercity Bus Services

Version 1.3 - Corrected Ottawa-Peterborough Greyhound service as per comments by @MisterF:

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From that second link:
According to Toronto Pearson’s website, starting April 16Greyhound will operate daily routes from Pearson to various Ontario destinations, such as Cambridge, Guelph, Hamilton, Kitchener, London, Niagara Falls, St. Catharines and Windsor. There will also be routes available heading to destinations such as in Illinois, Michigan and New York.

This is exactly the type of service changes that private operators need to be making to stay competitive in a changing environment! Private bus lines into downtown Toronto are becoming less and less attractive as traffic congestion gets worse and GO Transit adds more all-day train service. But the airport is a big low-hanging fruit: there's no train service other than UP, and like downtown it's a place that even suburbanites and non-Torontonians would want to get to without a car. I expect that routes such as Kitchener-Pearson and Guelph-Pearson will be quite successful.
 

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Just something I'd throw onto there... Every Coach Canada/Megabus stops in Kingston, at least as of the last time I booked a ticket. There's also no Toronto-Kingston Greyhound. Just Toronto-Ottawa and Kingston-Ottawa.
 
Greyhound to add routes to Pearson on April 16

Can anyone figure out what these routes are? I checked travel from Pearson to Niagara Falls and found trip times that varied between 1h45 and 4h40. For an example, see the bottom of https://dudewheresmybusmap.wordpres...s-toronto-tantalizingly-close-to-being-great/

As per usual, I'm finding it difficult to find the actual schedules. I spent about a half hour playing the game of "compare the schedule details of multiple individual searches to try and reverse engineer schedules"...before remembering how asinine it is that this is not just provided in a user-friendly format.

This is exactly the type of service changes that private operators need to be making to stay competitive in a changing environment! Private bus lines into downtown Toronto are becoming less and less attractive as traffic congestion gets worse

The nearly 5 hour route from Pearson to NF has a long layover at Bay & Dundas - so it doesn't achieve the goal of avoiding the downtown traffic. The scheduled trip from Niagara Falls to Pearson averages 3-3h30, again with a layover downtown. I'm headed to the airport in a few days, but have opted to avoid it: in addition to the quizzical trip in and out of the core, the Toronto-bound Greyhounds almost always come from the US and are often delayed because of problems at the border.

Just something I'd throw onto there... Every Coach Canada/Megabus stops in Kingston, at least as of the last time I booked a ticket. There's also no Toronto-Kingston Greyhound. Just Toronto-Ottawa and Kingston-Ottawa.

Apparently, there is a Greyhound bus that travels from Toronto to Kingston daily - you're just not allowed to buy that specific ticket. Go to http://extranet.greyhound.com/revsup/csked2/pageset.html and look up route "748." This is effectively a Toronto to Ottawa local, via Smith Falls or Brockville depending upon the day. Some origin-destination pairs are embargoed, presumably because Megabus owns the monopoly (or whatever it is called) for those trips.

To the best of my knowledge, you are correct: every Megabus passing through Kingston stops in Kingston.
 
Just something I'd throw onto there... Every Coach Canada/Megabus stops in Kingston, at least as of the last time I booked a ticket.

You're right, I dunno why I showed most of them skipping Kingston. Probably an error from copy-pasting the Greyhound line.

There's also no Toronto-Kingston Greyhound. Just Toronto-Ottawa and Kingston-Ottawa.

There is actually one daily Greyhound trip from Toronto to Kingston. Run #5360, the Toronto-Ottawa local via 401:
Screen Shot 2017-04-18 at 22.50.06.png

Oddly, this is also the only bus trip between Kingston and Ottawa. Having only a single local bus per day is surprisingly poor service for such a central route, even in Ontario. At least VIA offers good train service between Kingston and Ottawa.
 

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Can anyone figure out what these routes are? I checked travel from Pearson to Niagara Falls and found trip times that varied between 1h45 and 4h40. For an example, see the bottom of https://dudewheresmybusmap.wordpres...s-toronto-tantalizingly-close-to-being-great/

As per usual, I'm finding it difficult to find the actual schedules. I spent about a half hour playing the game of "compare the schedule details of multiple individual searches to try and reverse engineer schedules"...before remembering how asinine it is that this is not just provided in a user-friendly format.

I feel your pain! Literally. I just spent about 4 hours playing the "compare the schedules" game. It surely can't help Greyhound's business to have their schedules be such a mystery.

Kitchener - Guelph - Pearson - Toronto:

Here's my consolidation of the current Kitchener-Toronto eastbound weekday service, showing how the 4 daily Pearson trips fit in:
Screen Shot 2017-04-18 at 23.07.57.png


Windsor - London - Hamilton - Pearson - Toronto:

Here's my consolidation of the current Windsor-Toronto eastbound weekday service, showing where the 6 daily Pearson trips come from:
Screen Shot 2017-04-19 at 00.25.36.png


Niagara Falls - Hamilton - Pearson

The nearly 5 hour route from Pearson to NF has a long layover at Bay & Dundas - so it doesn't achieve the goal of avoiding the downtown traffic. The scheduled trip from Niagara Falls to Pearson averages 3-3h30, again with a layover downtown. I'm headed to the airport in a few days, but have opted to avoid it: in addition to the quizzical trip in and out of the core, the Toronto-bound Greyhounds almost always come from the US and are often delayed because of problems at the border.

As far as I can tell, the new Niagara Falls - Pearson route has only 1 round trip per day. The rest of the journeys that show up in the trip planner are just other services which happen to connect via Toronto Coach Terminal. All the Kitchener-Pearson and Windsor/London-Pearson services continue to Toronto Coach Terminal, which where the Toronto-Pearson leg of your indirect NF-Pearson trips is coming from.

One interesting thing about the new NF-Pearson service is that it technically revives the Hamilton-Niagara service that Coach Canada abandoned in 2014, albeit with only 1 bus per day:
Screen Shot 2017-04-18 at 23.05.04.png


Another very interesting note about the airport schedules is that Greyhound is now directly competing with Robert Q on the London-Pearson route. Greyhound runs 6 daily round trips on the route, 4 of which go non-stop just like the Robert Q buses (the remaining 2 go via Hamilton).
 

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Oddly, this is also the only bus trip between Kingston and Ottawa. One local bus per day is surprisingly poor service for such a central route, even in Ontario. At least VIA offers good train service between Kingston and Ottawa.

Behold another characteristic of Ontario bus travel: variation by day of the week. Four days/week it's true, there's only one Kingston-Ottawa bus. Then on Saturdays there are two, while on Fridays and Sundays there are three. At least in this case the variation follows an easy to remember pattern: more buses on the weekend. Whether that's enough to make bus travel a reliable option...that's debatable.

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VIA does provide excellent service between K & O, but it is usually more expensive and provides minimal/zero service to communities en route. I suppose, at least you can get from the larger centres frequently and reliably.

I just spent about 4 hours playing the "compare the schedules" game...Here's my consolidation of the current Kitchener-Toronto eastbound weekday service, showing how the 4 daily Pearson trips fit in:

Holey shmoley - great work! And that answers a question I had: it takes 4 hours to create such a table.

One interesting thing about the new NF-Pearson service is that it technically revives the Hamilton-Niagara service that Coach Canada abandoned in 2014, albeit with only 1 bus per day...

Not fabulous, but I'll take the improvement.

Instead of referencing the former Coach Canada/Megabus service, I would reference the current way to make this trip: GO #12 to HSR #2. For the few people currently taking the 4:02pm GO departure from NF to Hamilton, this express route is a great improvement. But will people know about it? GoogleMaps certainly does not.

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Another very interesting note about the airport schedules is that Greyhound is now directly competing with Robert Q on the London-Pearson route. Greyhound runs 6 daily round trips on the route, 4 of which go non-stop just like the Robert Q buses (the remaining 2 go via Hamilton).

And on the Hamilton -> Pearson run they are competing directly with GO. I would like to think that the direct run, saving 20 minutes, will benefit some riders, particularly if someone just missed the 5:10pm departure from Hamilton, or this run was prone to crowding or something. There are all sorts of new types of competition here. Possibly to make bus travel a better option and therefore increase ridership? I can hope.

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Oddly, this is also the only bus trip between Kingston and Ottawa. Having only a single local bus per day is surprisingly poor service for such a central route, even in Ontario. At least VIA offers good train service between Kingston and Ottawa.
As long as you don't need to do business there, given the first arrival in Ottawa is 1129. This is where VIA having Thruway type service to split the gaps in service would be pretty handy, if only to get some indication of demand.
 
There is actually one daily Greyhound trip from Toronto to Kingston. Run #5360, the Toronto-Ottawa local via 401:

Fair enough. The trip exists but you're not allowed to book a Toronto-Kingston trip on it, because of the regulations for intercity bus travel.
 
Version 2.0 - Updated to 2017 schedules featuring new airport services; made various corrections including those suggested by @ShonTron and @amnesiajune.

Screen Shot 2017-04-20 at 22.21.21.png


And, just for fun, the Pearson Airport - Toronto Greyhound schedule. You can't actually book a ticket from Pearson to downtown, this trip is only available to customers with a Greyhound connection at Toronto Coach Terminal.
The two routes (55 London-Toronto and 56 Kitchener-Toronto) blend fairly well at Pearson, which was probably deliberate.
Screen Shot 2017-04-20 at 22.33.31.png
 

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TriTAG thinks Greyhound is not licensed to provide service to Pearson: http://www.tritag.ca/blog/2017/04/21/is-greyhound-pulling-an-uber/
Excellent heads-up on that. I wondered. And unless Pacific Western has sold or surrendered their licence to the airport, Greyhound or anyone else (municipal transit providers besides) can't do it to TO Downtown. Just digging on that now.

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On a completely separate note, Il Duce's claim for (gist) "promoting the cycling trails routes and map" in Ontario, which I've now misplaced the link for to the map, is the first time I've seen a 'whole Ontario' map of cycle routes/trails. Dammit! They've had it all this time! So why won't they publish it on paper?

Anyone remember the link? It was a "Cycle Ontario" or some org like that that published it. Love to discuss it here, as what was published was less than rudimentary. Reaper or others could do one a zillion times better.
 
How intercity bus service is failing Ontarians

https://tvo.org/article/current-aff...ow-intercity-bus-service-is-failing-ontarians
By Sean Marshall

Pay a visit to the busy Toronto Coach Terminal at Bay and Dundas streets, and you’d be forgiven for thinking bus service is alive and well in Ontario. Long lines form for buses that have not even pulled in yet. Commuters travel to and from cities like St. Catharines, Brantford, Cambridge, and Peterborough. Crowds are especially large on Friday and Sunday nights as students head to and from university and college. The bus also remains a popular — if gruelling — way to get to far-off destinations like New York. But at the ticket counter, the number of destinations for which one can buy a ticket has plummeted. Hundreds of weekly bus trips and dozens of routes have been cut in the last 30 years.

There are still many bus options if you’re travelling between large cities. More than 10 double-decker buses run on Highway 401 between Toronto, Kingston, and Montreal each day, competing in the same market as VIA Rail, Air Canada, WestJet, and Porter. Greyhound offers seven buses a day between Toronto and Ottawa — another route where rail, bus, and air operators provide multiple options for travel. Bus service between Toronto, St. Catharines, and Niagara, and between Toronto and larger cities in Western Ontario including Kitchener, London, and Windsor, also remains strong.

All of these routes have something in common: they connect larger cities, all with major post-secondary educational institutions (students are a reliable market) and run express, making few stops.

But outside these major corridors, the state of intercity bus travel in Ontario is bleak. In 2015, for example, Greyhound cut the number of buses between Ottawa and Sudbury in half. From Kenora to Cornwall, these cuts are affecting rural residents’ access to jobs, health care, and family.

The Liberals proudly point to their record on building and expanding highways and urban transit. On December 17, the province will celebrate the opening of a new $3.2 billion subway extension to Toronto’s York University and the City of Vaughan. It has also committed to a new one-stop subway extension in Scarborough that will cost at least $3.3 billion and to new light-rail projects in Kitchener-Waterloo and Ottawa (others have been proposed for Hamilton and Mississauga, as well). It is planning an expansion of the GO Transit rail system, and a high-speed rail line from Toronto to Kitchener and London. In Northern Ontario, Highway 69 is being twinned between Parry Sound and Sudbury, as is Highway 17 near Kenora and Thunder Bay.

But although studies on the modernization of the province’s beleaguered, skeletal bus system got underway in 2016, thus far, they’re resulted in no improvements to intercity bus travel in Ontario — it remains an afterthought.

Until the early 1990s, the Ontario Ministry of Transportation published a map of all scheduled intercity transportation routes — bus, rail, and air — in the province. In 1991, virtually every city and town in Ontario, from Hawkesbury to Leamington to Rainy River, had access to at least one daily intercity bus route. The Ontario Highway Transport Board regulated this network, awarding bus operators monopolies for each corridor, with an understanding that larger profits from buses connecting large city pairs would help subsidize rural routes. But when bus ridership between large cities declined, the province was unwilling to step in to protect small markets, and the network fell apart. (The Ministry of Transportation no longer publishes a map of intercity rail and bus routes.)

St. Thomas, a city of 38,000 located 25 kilometres south of London, was once an important railway centre — it even billed itself as the Railway Capital of Canada — but the last passenger train to stop there was Amtrak’s Niagara Rainbow, in 1979. At one point, residents had access to daily buses going in every direction.

During the 1980s, St. Thomas was served by three different intercity bus operators: Greyhound, Chatham Coach, and Erie Coach Lines. Several daily buses departed for London from the downtown; there were also daily buses to nearby communities such as Port Stanley, Tillsonburg, and Chatham. But by the early 2000s, most of those services had disappeared; Greyhound’s last service, a once-a-week run between London and Niagara Falls via St. Thomas and Simcoe, was cancelled in April 2010.

Aboutown, a London-based taxi and bus operator, tried to make a go of it in western Ontario, picking up routes cut by Greyhound, Coach Canada, and other local operators. Between 2011 and 2013, Aboutown Northlinkoperated three weekday round trips between London, St. Thomas, and Port Stanley; two daily buses between Guelph and Hamilton via McMaster; and other less frequent routes serving cities and towns like Stratford, Owen Sound, Listowel, Strathroy, and Sarnia.

At the end of 2013, though, Aboutown — which also operated airport shuttles and a fleet of taxis in London — went into receivership, and St. Thomas’s only scheduled intercity service disappeared. Both cities operate local transit services, but for those without cars, the only way to travel between St. Thomas and London is a $50 taxi ride.

Guelph and Hamilton, only 45 kilometres apart, and both larger cities with major university campuses, have also been disconnected by Aboutown’s demise. The route was once served by Canada Coach Lines, but Coach Canada abandoned the route in 2009. Anyone looking to travel between Hamilton and Guelph either has to travel through Kitchener, transferring between Megabus and Greyhound, or take a GO Transit bus to Mississauga and then transfer to another bus to Hamilton. Either route would take two and half hours, including transfer time; by car, the same drive, in moderate traffic, would take about an hour.

In some cases, the province could step in and fill the gap left by private operators. GO Transit’s expansion of train and bus service to Kitchener-Waterloo, Niagara, and Peterborough has been quite successful; the public transit system would be well positioned to operate a route in, say, the Guelph-Hamilton corridor, which has twice been abandoned by private companies. But further expansion of GO Transit’s service area would not be enough to fill the growing gaps in Ontario’s intercity rail and bus network.

In 2016, the Ontario Ministry of Transportation proposed several changes to its regulations for private bus operators in a bid to “modernize” the system: recommendations included deregulation and making it easier for shared vans to provide services once operated by large coach buses. Despite these proposals, there been no appetite for direct government subsidies to keep these services going; when the Northlander train between Toronto, North Bay, and Cochrane was cancelled, Ontario Northland promised “enhanced bus service,” but it’s since been forced to make cuts as well.

While the province does a good job promoting the funding it provides for urban transit capital projects, it barely even pays lip service to transit in rural and northern Ontario. The disparity between the attention it gives transit in the Golden Horseshoe and the total lack of interest it shows in rural transportation is stark. All three of the major parties will be competing for voters’ attentions ahead of the June 2018 election, and traffic congestion and urban transit projects are likely to be major issues — but it’s unlikely that rural transport will get anywhere near the same airtime.

Ontario_Intercity_guide_2.jpg

Ontario intercity guide from 1983. Credit: TVO, MTO
 

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