High Speed Rail: London - Kitchener-Waterloo - Pearson Airport - Toronto

[dunkalunk]

Transport Minister Announces Start Of Assessment Phase For London-Toronto High Speed Rail Line

London, Ontario, Canada / (CFPL AM) AM 980
Jacquelyn LeBel
April 30, 2014 12:57 pm

The Ontario Liberals are fleshing out plans to introduce high-speed rail to London.

At a news conference Wednesday afternoon at the Western Fair District, Transportation Minister Glen Murray announced the government plans to finalize the business case and begin assessment as soon as this fall.

The assessment phase would last three to four years and if approved, construction would take roughly the same time period.

According to Murray, by 2025 the rail line would attract 6 million passengers per year and would take about 20,000 cars off the 401 each day.

The trains would run between London and Toronto with stops in Kitchener-Waterloo and at Pearson International Airport. In all, it would take a train 71 minutes to get from downtown London to downtown Toronto at a speed of 329km/hr.

Premier Kathleen Wynne’s $29 billion dollar transportation masterplan would include spending the next decade building the infrastructure needed to provide all-day rail service between each city.

More to come.

With files from Jess Brady.

http://www.am980.ca/2014/04/30/tran...hase-for-london-toronto-high-speed-rail-line/

It looks like they're looking at true 320km/h high speed service. 48mins Kitchener to Toronto, 1h10 from London to Toronto. The conceptual map shows a new alignment between London and Kitchener (no suprise here if trains are supposed to get between the two in 22 minutes) and new alignment bypassing Guelph to the south between Georgetown and Kitchener (not sure how likely this is). They are still planning on purchasing 80-90% of the line betwen Kitchener and Toronto which probably means a cutofff somewhere; perhaps Acton/Rockwood?

 

[Haljackey]

Update from an announcement in London today: HSR EA will begin in the fall.

http://www.lfpress.com/2014/04/30/e...between-london-and-toronto-to-start-this-year

Tweets

@Glen4ONT says the high speed trains will travel at 320kms/hr , w 28 trains running from #ldnont to TO everyday. @CTVLondon #onpoli

Preliminary numbers show ride from London to Toronto would cost an avg of $40. There would be business and economy class. #lm #ldnont

With trains every 30 mins. Holy crap. RT @zb_armstrong: 1 hour 10mins from #LDNOnt to Toronto.

"We have to build and imagine and dream things we never dreamt before. Even buffalo has a high speed rail coming soon" - @Glen4ONT

 

[ShonTron]

Glen Murray is really, really out to lunch. The only "high speed rail" coming to Buffalo that seems remotely possible are upgrades to the Empire Corridor - which would allow up to 110MPH operation (175 km/h) on other designated Amtrak "higher-speed corridors" such as that on the Wolverine Detroit-Chicago train.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

This is absolute crap. The EA better hash out different alternatives. This is such a random line on a map, and it has no resemblance to the HSR study previously completed for the Ontario, Quebec and federal governments.

 

[TOareaFan]

Anyone else surprised that this thing could generate 6 million passengers per year? Assuming a totally even distribution of passengers between work days and weekends...that averages 16,500 per day! If they are all return trips....8,250 people a day moving between these centres?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

$40 is a steep price. You're not going to get anyone doing their daily commutes on this line.

 

[MisterF]

^That's a preliminary average price. Presumably there would be cheaper tickets for frequent commuters.

That conceptual alignment is pretty much what I would have expected for a train going 300+ km/h. From what I've seen on existing lines, they basically always bypass cities like Guelph. Unless of course they actually stop there. It wouldn't surprise me if the line bypassed Georgetown too. Guelph would no doubt still be served by regional trains.

I really, really hope Hudak doesn't win the he next election.

 

[ShonTron]

Oh, Glen.

Let's start with getting the existing track upgraded (especially between Georgetown and Kitchener) and work out a solution with the Feds/VIA for funding more trains to Kitchener and London and across Ontario. As you build the market, think about further upgrades.

 

[BMO]

lol @ everyone all up in arms about this. This is great news, enjoy it for what it is. In due time we'll all be able to put forth our comments after we get all the facts from the EA. Up until then it's getting hot and bothered over speculation.

 

[mpd618]

Let's start with getting the existing track upgraded (especially between Georgetown and Kitchener) and work out a solution with the Feds/VIA for funding more trains to Kitchener and London and across Ontario. As you build the market, think about further upgrades.

That makes sense if you think the demand grows linearly with service quality. If you think there's far more demand for a high-speed link like is being described, to the extent that fares will cover even most of the capital financing costs, then I don't see why it needs to be incremental.

 

[MDV3]

This sounds great! I hope the possibility of expansion is taken into consideration but I'm sure it will. Either to windsor to the south and/or into Quebec to the north. I wonder if Hamiltonians or niagarites would be that upset with this line?

 

[dunkalunk]

Oh, Glen.

Let's start with getting the existing track upgraded (especially between Georgetown and Kitchener) and work out a solution with the Feds/VIA for funding more trains to Kitchener and London and across Ontario. As you build the market, think about further upgrades.

There's no harm in doing an EA. Canada has a long and fabled history and lots of experience studying High Speed Rail

This could simply be a tactic to get upgraded rail service. As we see the project become watered down and broken out into phases by various levels of bureaucracy, we're likely to see many of the improvements to the rail corridor that would need to occur as a prerequisite to HSR service. There is no high speed rail between Kitchener and London until a funding announcement is made or a private partner is selected, although the fact that an EA is beginning this fall is definitely a good sign that *something* will get built.

 

[dunkalunk]

This sounds great! I hope the possibility of expansion is taken into consideration but I'm sure it will. Either to windsor to the south and/or into Quebec to the north. I wonder if Hamiltonians or niagarites would be that upset with this line?

Hamilton/Niagara needs its own electrified express service, and I'm sure with upgrades to the GO Lakeshore corridor, they'll get it. Aldershot makes a pretty lousy place to locate a HSR stop on a Toronto-London line regardless.

 

[ShonTron]

That makes sense if you think the demand grows linearly with service quality. If you think there's far more demand for a high-speed link like is being described, to the extent that fares will cover even most of the capital financing costs, then I don't see why it needs to be incremental.

The reason why I think you've got to start with upgrades is because the needed market isn't HSR to London, but fast regional rail to Brampton, Guelph, Kitchener. I really fear getting distracted by some left-field HSR plan to London will distract from this other need. Anyway, upgrading of the existing track is needed in any case if this new fancy HSR is going to skip Guelph, Brampton et al.

I'm not opposed to HSR, even to London, but I think Murray is nuts.

 

[TOareaFan]

This sounds great! I hope the possibility of expansion is taken into consideration but I'm sure it will. Either to windsor to the south and/or into Quebec to the north. I wonder if Hamiltonians or niagarites would be that upset with this line?

Well, I can't speak for folks in Hamilton or Niagara but that fairly aggressive timeline of 6 -8 years to operation is well within the timelines that the rest of the folks in that corridor have been given for all day 2 way service.....so there may be some pretty upset folks in Brampton, Etobicoke North, Weston if they see trains whizzing through, but not stopping at, their stations every half hour for this service as they continue to get on and off GO buses in the parking lots. There may also be people in those same communities upset that London and KW not only get their service earlier but that their service goes to the airport while a lot of workers/travellers in their communities don't (and by all accounts never will) have that option.

Something has to go first but this announcement with these timelines is bound to make some angry/concerned.