High Speed Rail: London - Kitchener-Waterloo - Pearson Airport - Toronto

[dunkalunk]

Because the UPX spur doesn't go to Malton GO. It branches off east of it. Besides, I'd like to preserve the UPX spur for GO REX service, haha.

You can definitely run more than one type of service on the spur provided there are no intermediate stops between the rail corridor and T1. I also think that an integrated HST station at Highway 27 would have far better connectivity and highway acess than one at Malton.

 

[dowlingm]

Very similar, actually, to what the folks at YTZ are proposing....runway, terminal, tunnel, etc. expansions paid for by users....any improvements to transit or roads leading to the airport are the responsibility of taxpayers (I think that is the theory behind their application to the feds for infrastructure money to go into those areas).

except City Councillors and those who oppose Porter plans and/or the airport itself are now referring to any public funds for off airport infrastructure as a subsidy to YTZ/Porter. This is a calculation rarely if ever levelled against YYZ and its main tenant AC.

 

[TOareaFan]

except City Councillors and those who oppose Porter plans and/or the airport itself are now referring to any public funds for off airport infrastructure as a subsidy to YTZ/Porter. This is a calculation rarely if ever levelled against YYZ and its main tenant AC.

Yes...that was what I was getting at.

 

[1overcosc]

To be fair YYZ has a shitton of airlines operating out of it from all over the world whereas YTZ is pretty much Porter-only.

 

[TOareaFan]

To be fair YYZ has a shitton of airlines operating out of it from all over the world whereas YTZ is pretty much Porter-only.

1. YTZ is not Porter only....yes it has the majority of gates but that is, at least partly, attributable to Air Canada abandoning the airport years ago and Continental turning back in gates they had.

2. It does not matter, if Porter and YTZ are somehow "subsidize" by land side infrastructure then YYZ and all the airlines there are similarly subsidised

 

[Admiral Beez]

When Pearson was first being planned and constructed in the early 1960s was there any consideration of adding a rail link from Union?

I know this was the era of the car, and before GO and VIA, with both CN and CPR losing tons of money on passenger service, with those loses covered by funds from Ottawa. However, with the Malton train station just up the road, the opportunity was there.

If Pearson from the start had a rail link to Union, how different would things be today?

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

When Pearson was first being planned and constructed in the early 1960s was there any consideration of adding a rail link from Union?

I know this was the era of the car, and before GO and VIA, with both CN and CPR losing tons of money on passenger service, with those loses covered by funds from Ottawa. However, with the Malton train station just up the road, the opportunity was there.

If Pearson from the start had a rail link to Union, how different would things be today?

I often wondered this. As simply moving the Terminals from their current location to the North West corner of the property (Airport Rd and Derry Rd intersection) would have provided access to Malton Go. There also was a rail spur that leads right into the airport property (If you have ever been to the International Centre you can see the remnants of this rail spur running right through it).

Maybe it was simply a matter of timing. GO didn't come into existence until the late 60's and by that time Pearson had already been developed (Original T1 opened in '64, and planning began as far back as '57), I am not sure if GO was even considered for anything more than a commuter service to the downtown core at that point. Also while VIA/CN/CP would have (should have) wanted to have passenger service to the airport my recollection is that Pearson was not a major airport until well into the '70s which by then the passenger rail business for VIA et al would have begun to dry up.

Just as Pearson was beginning to rise in prominence, passenger rail in the GTA had begun it's decline and thus there was never an intersection point where someone said "well you know, if we put the terminal here and connected to the train station there...."

 

[TOareaFan]

I often wondered this. As simply moving the Terminals from their current location to the North West corner of the property (Airport Rd and Derry Rd intersection) would have provided access to Malton Go. There also was a rail spur that leads right into the airport property (If you have ever been to the International Centre you can see the remnants of this rail spur running right through it).

Not sure how long you have been familiar with the area but that NW section of land (and I think the rail spur) were for a very long time utilized by the major employer in the area - McDonnell Douglas. In fact, I think a great deal of the mid-20th century housing in the Malton area was built for workers there.

So moving the terminals to the NW corner would only have been possible after the 2005 demolition of the plant......by which time, I bet, such a move would not have been feasible.

 

[nfitz]

Not sure how long you have been familiar with the area but that NW section of land (and I think the rail spur) were for a very long time utilized by the major employer in the area - McDonnell Douglas. In fact, I think a great deal of the mid-20th century housing in the Malton area was built for workers there.

I'd never realised that McDonnell Douglas was there before the airport! Learn something new every day!

 

[TOareaFan]

I'd never realised that McDonnell Douglas was there before the airport! Learn something new every day!

don't want to mislead anyone....not sure it was there before or not (think they were roughly concurrent) but, certainly, by the time the airport became "major" and before air travel became the "norm" the manufacturing facility that ultimately became MD was there.

Someone looking now at that big empty piece of land on the corner of Airport and Derry might look at it and say..."why not put the terminals there much closer to the rail line/station" and I thought that might be what Woodbridge Heights had done.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

don't want to mislead anyone....not sure it was there before or not (think they were roughly concurrent) but, certainly, by the time the airport became "major" and before air travel became the "norm" the manufacturing facility that ultimately became MD was there.

Someone looking now at that big empty piece of land on the corner of Airport and Derry might look at it and say..."why not put the terminals there much closer to the rail line/station" and I thought that might be what Woodbridge Heights had done.

I said North West but really meant North East, although it seems you understood me anyway.

I am only really aware of the history of the airport for the last 15 - 20 years or so. However I think what you said about the factory at that location and it's affect on the planning of the airport terminals only goes to support what I was trying to say. That while one might look at a map of the airport and say "Why not place the terminals there" but that at the time the airport was being planed and began to gain prominence the land there was not available to construct a terminal and connect it to the rail line.

Basically between the land not being available, Go not being around until the late 60's, and planners not even considering a rail connection (as Pearson was not a major port) results in the airport we have today.

Hope that clarifies what I was trying to say.

 

[TOareaFan]

I said North West but really meant North East, although it seems you understood me anyway.

Funny how the brain tricks you when there is some pre-existing knowledge....you said NW.....and yes it is the NE part of airport lands but SW corner of the intersection and somehow I didn't question the combination and just knew what lands you were referring to. Didn't dawn on me to correct you on it until you corrected yourself

I am only really aware of the history of the airport for the last 15 - 20 years or so. However I think what you said about the factory at that location and it's affect on the planning of the airport terminals only goes to support what I was trying to say. That while one might look at a map of the airport and say "Why not place the terminals there" but that at the time the airport was being planed and began to gain prominence the land there was not available to construct a terminal and connect it to the rail line.

Basically between the land not being available, Go not being around until the late 60's, and planners not even considering a rail connection (as Pearson was not a major port) results in the airport we have today.

Hope that clarifies what I was trying to say.

Yes, again, we are saying the same thing from slightly different perspectives. It is very easy to look at that area now and say "why didn't they do this/that"....but the area has changed a lot.

Back in the late 70's early 80's it was a bit of an unwritten rule around the east side of Peel region to make sure you were not driving on Airport or Derry at/near shift change times at the MD plant....it really was a busy place and, as Cher would say, if you could turn back time it would explain a lot about the land uses and road network in the area.

 

[TOareaFan]

Glen Murray ‏@Glen4ONT 13m

Big announcement in London today!!!

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Glen Murray ‏@Glen4ONT 13m

Big announcement in London today!!!

Saw a tweet that Murray implied the Guelph subdivision to Kitchener would be bought by the province in a month's time.

 

[mpd618]

• 71 minutes between London and Toronto
• Trains going up to 320km/h
• 28 trains a day / half-hourly service
• Cost net of operations and capital financing - $500m after 10-15 years (I think)
• 6 million annual riders projected by 2025
• Business and economy class, with airline-type pricing and average preliminary London-Toronto cost of $40 (not sure if it's one-way or round trip)
• Some would be on existing corridor, some might be on new alignment - to be determined in EA
• EA to start this year
• Province purchasing track on this corridor - sounds very much like the Guelph subdivision