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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

I know the newer GO train platform screens were discussed at some point, but I wanted to bring them back up as I think they are pretty good. For a given platform, they provide the next 2 trains, timing and coach info, service updates, and stop details for the next train. The screen with ads is for platform 2 which has no schedules trains currently. If a train was scheduled on that platform, the ads go away and train information is displayed. My general feedback would be:
  • Knowing the next 3 trains would probably be best on a busy line like LW
  • The service updates section could be larger, or the advertising screen could occasionally show key service information like upcoming closures
  • There is a lot of dead space in the center that could show additional stops or transfer info at stops
PXL_20240919_212748552.jpg
 
I know the newer GO train platform screens ...
  • There is a lot of dead space in the center that could show additional stops or transfer info at stops
View attachment 597359
I vote for a larger font. Approaching my mid 50's (ack!), I like being able to read without fumbling for or adjusting glasses
 
I know the newer GO train platform screens were discussed at some point, but I wanted to bring them back up as I think they are pretty good. For a given platform, they provide the next 2 trains, timing and coach info, service updates, and stop details for the next train. The screen with ads is for platform 2 which has no schedules trains currently. If a train was scheduled on that platform, the ads go away and train information is displayed. My general feedback would be:
  • Knowing the next 3 trains would probably be best on a busy line like LW
  • The service updates section could be larger, or the advertising screen could occasionally show key service information like upcoming closures
  • There is a lot of dead space in the center that could show additional stops or transfer info at stops
View attachment 597359
Move the next train info onto the right side of screen. It can then display multiple train trips.
 
But right now it takes 30min from the Gardiner to the bus terminal, what would you rather?

Oriole would be a great option. 20 min service is possible here with three train sets. You only need 3 cars. Half hour would work if you can time it. We own the tracks, so there is no conflict with CN

Trains can layover at old Cummer, and there are washrooms for crews, free parking with lots of spots.
Maybe a dedicated bus lane as a queue jump? The bottleneck is the ramp/intersection. The lanes on Lakeshore are just room to stack vehicles as they queue.
 
Oriole would be a great option. 20 min service is possible here with three train sets. You only need 3 cars. Half hour would work if you can time it. We own the tracks, so there is no conflict with CN
Sometimes I wonder if it would make sense for MX to run a 6 coach train back & forth between Union and Oriole throughout the day. Quick and easy access to the 401 for P&Rer's and the Sheppard line. It would definitely make more sense if MX were to purchase the Leaside Spur.
Dropping GO bus passengers at Oriole would make no sense because it would take them longer to get to Union via GO train than it currently does via subway from York Mills.

See my calculations below:
The southern segment of the Richmond Hill line is notoriously slow, so it is only competitive during peak periods when the DVP is jammed and the Yonge subway is overcrowded. The GO train takes 25 minutes to get from Oriole to Union, which is exactly the same time as the subway from York Mills. Currently half of the 401 GO bus routes go to York Mills, while the other half go via Sheppard-Yonge, which is 28 minutes from Union.

Even if you incorrectly assume that everyone is going specifically to Union Station you'd still be better off dropping Richmond Hill and 401 East GO bus passengers at York Mills than at Oriole.

View attachment 387019

Line 1 runs every 4 minutes, so including 0 to 4 minutes waiting and 2 minutes walking between the platorms, it would take 27 to 31 minutes to get to Union after being dropped off at York Mills.
Timed transfers from GO buses to GO trains are scheduled with a 15-minute transfer time to minimise the risk of missing a very infrequent train. So it would take 40 minutes to get to Union after being dropped off at Oriole.

Even though it would take 401 East and Richmond Hill buses 7 minutes longer to drive to York Mills than to Oriole, York Mills would still be 2 to 6 minutes faster for the passengers headed to Union, and much much faster for passengers headed anywhere else. Sure, some passengers might still choose to take the GO train for its superior comfort, but that small benefit definitely wouldn't justify the 5 minute-delay that serving Oriole would incur for 401 East GO bus customers.
 
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During the school season it really is a weekly occurrence. The 30/30A on a Sunday evening is absolutely miserable for travelers, with the level of service needed absolutely not nearly matching demand.

It has been discussed on the Construction thread that actual Kitchener Line works have really slowed down as of late, with contracts only starting to go out now, and stuff like the Guelph track tie in and the various sidings slowing or not progressing at all. Essentially, the weekend work that is supposedly being done is not really happening and shouldn't be used as a justification for the lack of at least one or two Kitchener trains on even just Sunday night to get students and residents to KW.

CN and freight operations continue just fine on the Guelph Sub where work is taking place, VIA gets two shots a day on this section, why can't GO?

It really is a matter of safety. I've seen horrible crowding at Bramalea GO, people being pushed, standing room riders falling as the bus grinds to a halt on the 401, line cutting, a lot of angry riders and an almost guaranteed stressful situation.

It is a matter of time before something bad happens with this level of crowding and lake of safety at Bramalea and on the buses. The onus is on the province, GO and MX to provide the levels of service needed to ensure that safety is being maintained.

If this means scheduling a third, fourth or fifth bus on the hour during those Sunday Evening times, GO should do it. I think operationally, there comes a point where running an "expensive" train becomes more economically viable than those buses with the large amount of drivers, those deadheading buses being sent to Meadowvale to pick stranded hours and the whole lot of detouring.

We talk about it a lot and I personally am going to keep on calling for some level of KT train service on the weekends. I've seen people get hurt on this bus. There's a terrible milk run bus to Georgetown which is absolutely miserable for those riders. I simply do not buy any excuses to not have one train, because safety is paramount, and MX has found ways around work and construction to maintain some levels of service.

The 30min-hourly level of KT service is years out, fine, I get that. But CN's note of one crossing at Silver per hour means bi-hourly service if MX and GO so pleased. I'm not even asking for that. The demand is there, the PRESTO fares are there and the tax dollars have been collected to ensure the public can rely on some level of service the government owes it to us. This goes for all services provided to the people, municipally and provincially, where operations should be optimized and passengers should be thought of first.

I'm fuming today honestly, after a horrid experience, but I want to acknowledge that generally passengers are all good sports who just want to get to KW or their destinations. And the bus staff are amazing, I heard my driver giving detailed calls to control asking for backup buses at Meadowvale ASAP to get stranded riders. It's those who are in charge who need to move forward with hiring and training new conductors and drivers, get rid of the red tape in all of our projects and be more transparent, and ensure passengers are kept moving.

I haven't even mentioned the 401. It was bad, buses were detouring in the Campbellville/Guelph area. Trains could solve this, and keep people and goods moving, which the government swears it's doing, but is doing a bad job of.
 
There are a couple of ways that you could deal with this crowding. Might as well include everything they could do to fix the entire Kitchener corridor in general on weekends.

1. Run at least 1 train per weekend to Kitchener. Maybe at 7:51PM or 8:51PM so it wouldn't be too late while also not disrupting CN too much and work can still get done on the line.

2. Bring back the 25F, and have either that run a combined 30 mins with the 30/30A or have that act as the 3rd/4th bus leaving Bramalea after the hourly train.

3. Run more frequent buses on the 33. Why this route operates at only every 2 hours is criminal. Riders at York Mills and Yorkdale have to either deal with the 36 with a forced transfer at Bramalea to get to DT Brampton/Mount Pleasant, or they go down to Union adding more crowding to the trains.

4. Run the 17 on weekends and introduce an express branch for it to Waterloo. This is out of the way. but adding this option gives another efficient method between Toronto and KW.
 
There are a couple of ways that you could deal with this crowding. Might as well include everything they could do to fix the entire Kitchener corridor in general on weekends.

1. Run at least 1 train per weekend to Kitchener. Maybe at 7:51PM or 8:51PM so it wouldn't be too late while also not disrupting CN too much and work can still get done on the line.

2. Bring back the 25F, and have either that run a combined 30 mins with the 30/30A or have that act as the 3rd/4th bus leaving Bramalea after the hourly train.

3. Run more frequent buses on the 33. Why this route operates at only every 2 hours is criminal. Riders at York Mills and Yorkdale have to either deal with the 36 with a forced transfer at Bramalea to get to DT Brampton/Mount Pleasant, or they go down to Union adding more crowding to the trains.

4. Run the 17 on weekends and introduce an express branch for it to Waterloo. This is out of the way. but adding this option gives another efficient method between Toronto and KW.
Having one return trip train with 12 coaches on Sunday evening would solve so many problems. I do not see how any stakeholder of the rails can argue against the capacity for one train late Sunday, leaving the whole rest of the weekend for other projects on the line and CN freight (which genuinely is not a limiting factor, bus I digress.)

I find it shocking that the 25F is not in service. All around excellent bus for everyone. UW and WLU riders getting to the GTA get a shorter ride that skips the Kitchener run, and there is a connection to Highway 407 station, which can make for an excellent and short ride for people trying to get to the northern reaches of Toronto, and Brampton itself, which sees some of the greatest traffic in between Waterloo region. It would also free up bus 30 capacity for people in Kitchener who are constantly left behind because UW/WLU fill up the buses in two stops. The ride itself will effectively be the exact same as a car drive from UW to Highway 407 and ZOOM.

The 33 and 17 are good ideas too, connect people better. We also really need to connect Guelph and Georgetown better if there are not going to be trains. Buses with a 100 stops that come like twice a day are not going to suffice.

Honestly there are a multitude of solutions, the political will and our leadership (MX and gov.) are just uninterested. Safety is paramount, and it appears in the case of buses they can control, they'd rather them be slow sardine cans with people faceplanting due to the amount of people in standing room on a 120 km/h highway.

The solution that takes the least thought is the Kitchener Line. It might actually be slower during non-peak times than certain buses, but in getting people between DT Toronto and KW, beating traffic and being SAFE and COMFORTABLE, no bus can hold a candle to the train. We just need one or two. There should be no reason people are getting hurt on GO services and queues for the aforementioned services.

Like it or not, the corridor from Toronto to Kitchener-Waterloo, which includes the exploding Brampton population has seen the greatest growth in recent years, and will certainly keep up this trend. I personally believe that in a few decades the Kitchener Line will be GO's signature line, hosting the UPX, hopefully increased tracks and services and connecting the new hubs in Brampton and KW for innovation, technology and PEOPLE. GO really needs to figure this corridor out ASAP.
 
During the Citymakers 2024 Conference, a future station on the Kitchener Line named Heritage Heights was presented in a Infrastructure Ontario TOC presentation.

This station will be located between Mount Pleasant and Georgetown Stations, because it was shown in a IO TOC presentation it’s fair to assume this station is being built alongside a development, paid for by a developer:
You_Doodle+_2024-09-26T03_25_36Z.jpeg


This was the (very poorly made) map presented at the Citymakers Conference, not taken by me:
IMG_1623.jpeg
 
During the Citymakers 2024 Conference, a future station on the Kitchener Line named Heritage Heights was presented in a Infrastructure Ontario TOC presentation.

This station will be located between Mount Pleasant and Georgetown Stations, because it was shown in a IO TOC presentation it’s fair to assume this station is being built alongside a development, paid for by a developer:View attachment 598976

This was the (very poorly made) map presented at the Citymakers Conference, not taken by me:View attachment 598978
Not happening. Requires CN's approval. Bet the developer didn't consider this.
 
Not happening. Requires CN's approval. Bet the developer didn't consider this.
This isn’t a situation where a developer is going rouge and proposing stations here and there without approval from the government, who runs the TOC program.

The fact that Infrastructure Ontario (not a developer) made and presented this map suggests to me that there’s already talks happening or there will be, where it goes from there is anyones guess. But CN isn’t an immovable object though; a yard is already being built in this area, they can accept a station here under the right conditions.
 
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The City of Brampton had been pressing a new GO Train station around the intersection of the Guelph Sub and Heritage Road as part of their grand design for a boulevard instead of a grade separated highway 413. The recent Secondary Plan posted on their planning site now accepts that Hwy 413 is a reality and no longer mentions a Heritage Heights station. However, an update to the Heritage Heights Transportation Master Plan is "in progress" and we'll see whether that include a station.
 
During the Citymakers 2024 Conference, a future station on the Kitchener Line named Heritage Heights was presented in a Infrastructure Ontario TOC presentation.

This station will be located between Mount Pleasant and Georgetown Stations, because it was shown in a IO TOC presentation it’s fair to assume this station is being built alongside a development, paid for by a developer:View attachment 598976

This was the (very poorly made) map presented at the Citymakers Conference, not taken by me:View attachment 598978
I wouldn't take it too seriously since they mixed up Bramalea and Malton
 
The City of Brampton had been pressing a new GO Train station around the intersection of the Guelph Sub and Heritage Road as part of their grand design for a boulevard instead of a grade separated highway 413. The recent Secondary Plan posted on their planning site now accepts that Hwy 413 is a reality and no longer mentions a Heritage Heights station. However, an update to the Heritage Heights Transportation Master Plan is "in progress" and we'll see whether that include a station.
the station is dead as Metrolinx is building a layover yard in the area.
 

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