GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[salsa]

Orillia doesn't need rail service. For the size of the city, a simple GO bus would be sufficient.

 

[drum118]

I said it before. There is an upper limit on how much further we can extend GO Service before we begin drifting from a Regional Rail Service (really a peak commuter rail service at the moment) to a passenger rail service, and I think we are already there. How can an Orilla resident even consider a GO rail service on the Barrie corridor economical when the travel time to Union from Allandale is already nearly 2 hrs. How can someone rationalize spending 4-5 hours a day simply commuting to and from work everyday.

I realize that part of GO's new mandate is to have growth nodes and have service to these locations, as such, not all demand will be destined to Union. However the majority of riders are still bound for Union and even significant growth in the growth centres will only be a fraction of the demand at Union. So, the main concern remains travel time to Union which is getting obscenely long.

At these distances I can't help but believe that the better option in a passenger rail service (provided by VIA, or express go trains) rather than a Regional Commuter Rail system.

GO has already exceeded its Regional area and why I have beings saying for years to be Southern Ontario Region System running from Windsor to Kingston, Buffalo/NF to Sudbury.

What GO was to be to What it should be are totally 2 different animals. It needs to offer different type of service as well how it service different hubs to meet the needs of those hub.

Not everyone works in Toronto or need to get there but to get to/from other locations at lot easier without the need of a car.

Don't need 12 car trains for everything to the point you only need 3-5 car trains for a fair number of service with 12 being for peak and heavy service areas.

 

[crs1026]

I said it before. There is an upper limit on how much further we can extend GO Service before we begin drifting from a Regional Rail Service (really a peak commuter rail service at the moment) to a passenger rail service, and I think we are already there. How can an Orilla resident even consider a GO rail service on the Barrie corridor economical when the travel time to Union from Allandale is already nearly 2 hrs. How can someone rationalize spending 4-5 hours a day simply commuting to and from work everyday.

True. I think we are discussing something closer to the traditional CN/VIA RDC style business as opposed to a stopping GO train. Stops every 15 miles, not every 3 miles. Multiple departures, all day long. Maybe not every hour, but frequent enough to meet most needs.

One can make the case that it's traditionally been VIA's mandate, but VIA will never get the funding or permissions to make this "outer regional" service work. Better if it now resides with the Province (who can give a green light to make it work) than have it hobbled by Ottawa bureaucratic naysaying.

- Paul

 

[crs1026]

Orillia doesn't need rail service. For the size of the city, a simple GO bus would be sufficient.

Same argument we rehash regularly about how far out to build subways. Orillia may not be a huge center, but is no further from Union than Stratford, London, or Niagara Falls, and has substantial density along the route - all of which had very successful regional RDC services twenty years ago, before VIA got squeezed. And a gateway to cottage country.

One could design a bus to Newmarket to connect with RER, or one could design a through service with some trains having limited stops so the end to end time is much faster. I would prefer the latter, just as I would prefer a Regional service to Kitchener instead of bus to Bramalea and then train downtown.

Bus to downtown just isn't going to work as our expressways continue to congeal.

- Paul

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Same argument we rehash regularly about how far out to build subways. Orillia may not be a huge center, but is no further from Union than Stratford, London, or Niagara Falls, and has substantial density along the route - all of which had very successful regional RDC services twenty years ago, before VIA got squeezed. And a gateway to cottage country.

One could design a bus to Newmarket to connect with RER, or one could design a through service with some trains having limited stops so the end to end time is much faster. I would prefer the latter, just as I would prefer a Regional service to Kitchener instead of bus to Bramalea and then train downtown.

Bus to downtown just isn't going to work as our expressways continue to congeal.

- Paul

Yes. Something will have to give as the GTA keeps growing. That's why Metrolinx needs to move faster with rail expansion on all corridors, before we get the critical mass.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

GO has already exceeded its Regional area and why I have beings saying for years to be Southern Ontario Region System running from Windsor to Kingston, Buffalo/NF to Sudbury.

What GO was to be to What it should be are totally 2 different animals. It needs to offer different type of service as well how it service different hubs to meet the needs of those hub.

Not everyone works in Toronto or need to get there but to get to/from other locations at lot easier without the need of a car.

Don't need 12 car trains for everything to the point you only need 3-5 car trains for a fair number of service with 12 being for peak and heavy service areas.

I said it before. There is an upper limit on how much further we can extend GO Service before we begin drifting from a Regional Rail Service (really a peak commuter rail service at the moment) to a passenger rail service, and I think we are already there. How can an Orilla resident even consider a GO rail service on the Barrie corridor economical when the travel time to Union from Allandale is already nearly 2 hrs. How can someone rationalize spending 4-5 hours a day simply commuting to and from work everyday.

I realize that part of GO's new mandate is to have growth nodes and have service to these locations, as such, not all demand will be destined to Union. However the majority of riders are still bound for Union and even significant growth in the growth centres will only be a fraction of the demand at Union. So, the main concern remains travel time to Union which is getting obscenely long.

At these distances I can't help but believe that the better option in a passenger rail service (provided by VIA, or express go trains) rather than a Regional Commuter Rail system.

I think it's time for Ontario to help out with VIA. Same with Quebec.

 

[micheal_can]

If only there were a rail system that serviced just Ontario that wasn't GO.... Oh, wait, there was, until this government saw the need to cancel it - The Northlander.

The ONR Should have become an Ontario intercity Rail service. It should be express on the GO lines.

But alas, the government wanted to save about $100 million annually.

 

[Northern Light]

If only there were a rail system that serviced just Ontario that wasn't GO.... Oh, wait, there was, until this government saw the need to cancel it - The Northlander.

The ONR Should have become an Ontario intercity Rail service. It should be express on the GO lines.

But alas, the government wanted to save about $100 million annually.

I agree that the move to mostly terminate ON was premature and ill conceived.

Though, I'm not sure there wasn't potential in it; and it was simply squandered.

Merging ON w/GO would have created interesting possibilities.

ON had the capability for heavy refurbishment of rolling stock.

At the same time, GO could have absorbed payroll and back office functions for ON and added buying power.

Alas, such thoughts were not in the wind.

 

[muller877]

Orillia doesn't need rail service. For the size of the city, a simple GO bus would be sufficient.

...and Barrie had great foresight to keep the ROW to bring back GO. However, north of Allendale they did not keep the ROW intact. A new ROW could be developed through a land reclamation project (filling in the lake)...but kinda costly and kinda non-environmentally friendly.

 

[rbt]

...and Barrie had great foresight to keep the ROW to bring back GO. However, north of Allendale they did not keep the ROW intact. A new ROW could be developed through a land reclamation project (filling in the lake)...but kinda costly and kinda non-environmentally friendly.

You can hit Snow Valley/Midhurst pretty easily as a single track Allandale extension. Orillia is probably better to get to from the other side of the lake via an extension of the Richmond Hill service as that track follows highway 12 and goes past Casino Rama. You could put a massive parking lot near Concession Road 7 where Highway 12/169 join; nobody from Orillia would object to driving that far.

Existing Barrie stops aren't good locations for Orillia commuters who's destination is Barrie employment; so they won't be interested in the train anyway.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

So what services will the Liberals expand to get 905 votes in the next election? I see the Barrie Line (to Aurora or Newmarket), Stoufville (to Mount Joy), Lakeshore West Hamilton expansion, and Finishing Brampton service to Mt Pleasant at least?

 

[dowlingm]

If only there were a rail system that serviced just Ontario that wasn't GO.... Oh, wait, there was, until this government saw the need to cancel it - The Northlander.

The ONR Should have become an Ontario intercity Rail service. It should be express on the GO lines.

But alas, the government wanted to save about $100 million annually.

Aside from the possibility that the figures bandied at the time constituted Hollywood accounting, if Northlander had operated a 651/650 type train (North Bay-Toronto-North Bay) to get northerners to appointments without spending the night, with a train which didn't need to drag an APU around, maybe it could have done some decent trade. Would have helped too if VIA's push to multimodal ticketing had happened sooner as Northlander ticketing portal was awful.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

Agree with your main point, ie that Orillia may be SOL. Nitpick: Rails did exist, and were ripped out, from Bradford to Orillia. GO did restore the rails as far as Barrie. But redevelopment of Barrie's waterfront, and construction of new buildings north of there, makes it much more difficult to go any further. Orillia is the one that got away.

- Paul

The Allendale line extends along Tifton St and then head out of town. They could add a new line to spur it to the old ROW eventually. Certain future extensions will be a challenge.

I said it before. There is an upper limit on how much further we can extend GO Service before we begin drifting from a Regional Rail Service (really a peak commuter rail service at the moment) to a passenger rail service, and I think we are already there. How can an Orilla resident even consider a GO rail service on the Barrie corridor economical when the travel time to Union from Allandale is already nearly 2 hrs. How can someone rationalize spending 4-5 hours a day simply commuting to and from work everyday.

I realize that part of GO's new mandate is to have growth nodes and have service to these locations, as such, not all demand will be destined to Union. However the majority of riders are still bound for Union and even significant growth in the growth centres will only be a fraction of the demand at Union. So, the main concern remains travel time to Union which is getting obscenely long.

At these distances I can't help but believe that the better option in a passenger rail service (provided by VIA, or express go trains) rather than a Regional Commuter Rail system.

If were talking extensions from Barrie (Allandale Waterfront) I think Collingwood is logical. Rails still exist for the majority of the route, however are in absolutely dismal condition and would need to be re-laid. Trains haven't run here in years. The route however is very straight, and it would be a relatively cheap and easy expansion. (fun fact, UT has a Barrie-Collingwood RR thread)

 

[micheal_can]

So what services will the Liberals expand to get 905 votes in the next election? I see the Barrie Line (to Aurora or Newmarket), Stoufville (to Mount Joy), Lakeshore West Hamilton expansion, and Finishing Brampton service to Mt Pleasant at least?

RER on all lines would be the promise. Anything less than that would not be enough.

Aside from the possibility that the figures bandied at the time constituted Hollywood accounting, if Northlander had operated a 651/650 type train (North Bay-Toronto-North Bay) to get northerners to appointments without spending the night, with a train which didn't need to drag an APU around, maybe it could have done some decent trade. Would have helped too if VIA's push to multimodal ticketing had happened sooner as Northlander ticketing portal was awful.

There were many issues that caused it's demise. Ticketing, schedule, frequency, etc. But if it were a GO line, the government would have fixed those.

 

[cbrown2009]

RER on all lines isn't going to happen before the next election, or the next few elections, for that matter. Hourly all day, 2 way, every day, on Kitchener & Barrie, and Stouffville weekday services are, however, scheduled to be up and operating. They're already late on some aspects. That may or may not be totally their fault but those are the realities. If these steps are not in place, they'll lose a lot of votes. Maybe including mine.