GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[denfromoakvillemilton]

IF CN is relocated to the bypass, two tracks will be sufficient for 2WAD local service. The third (and fourth) tracks are needed to add express service on top of local trains ( an absolute necessitty no-brainer, IMHO ) and/or to facilitate VIA or HxR.

A second track for much or all of Georgetown - Kitchener is also required.

GEXR does not need to exit, the point about CN and/or GEXR is simply that the Kichener route has a going concern freight business that isn't going away, has its own intricacies, and (in spite of GO buying the line) probably has legal rights that must ge protected. Since GEXR has never operated double stack container trains, there is likely less standing in the way of electrifying some of this line.

- Paul

Thank You paul.

And it looks like at Milton the CP people doesn't like the bypass too much. So we need two tracks. Under normal circumstances, this could all be done in 3 years.

 

[steveintoronto]

I'm confused about the nature of this lease, given that Metrolinx bought the line from CN on September 24th 2014 for $76 Million. Did it simply go from "owned by CN, leased to GEXR" to "owned by Metrolinx, leased to GEXR"? If so, I wonder what the point was of buying it prior to the end of GEXR's lease.

It was about a year back that I read on a Guelph/Kitchener area blog, quite a well-known one, probably some of you are familiar with it and would know the name, I'd quoted the article in the VIA or HSR thread I think, on VIA's (gist) "having just paid $Bigbucks to signal the line, and can't get the two slots extra it wants due to the present GEXR lease conditions".

The blog had posted pics of signalling finished along the line including at Silvercreek Parkway including an equipment shed...which struck me as odd, since the City of Guelph has a large underpass planned for exactly that location. If anyone is good at searching this site (UT) the tags would be "Silvercreek Parkway VIA signals slots GEXR lease"

I've just narrowed it down doing a Google search, still can't find it exactly, it had detailed information, but think this is the org:
http://gokw.org/?paged=7
Working back about a year might show the article.

Meantime, here's the City of Guelph link to the slated grade separation and re-opening of the Parkway south for development:
http://guelph.ca/city-hall/planning...ments/silvercreek-parkway-south-improvements/

Edit to Add: This isn't the article I was looking for, but pertinent information on related aspects:

Two more trains for Kitchener by fall – and dissecting the news
By shost at 8:57 am on Wednesday, June 15, 2016
Announced yesterday – a special GO train was ran west in the morning and east in the afternoon from Toronto for this event at the Kitchener station.

http://www.therecord.com/news-story...-two-way-all-day-go-train-service-wynne-says/

Bottom line is due to the Shirley Ave layover facility, GO will add two more departures out of Kitchener this fall.

Now here’s the interesting part, with respect to all-day service by 2024: “The Premier said her government is very confident the commitment will be met now that there’s an agreement in principle between transit agency Metrolinx and CN that will result in the construction of a new freight line to run from Bramalea to about Milton.”

What is this new freight line? This is the ‘missing link’ – in effect, if a new freight corridor is built from Milton to Halwest (Bramalea) along the 407, when completed CN trains can be taken off the Georgetown to Bramalea corridor and free this corridor up for all day service and , eventually, electrification. It has little effect on us in the KW/Guelph regions, except for the fact that Georgetown-Bramalea is the bottleneck stopping any additional departures or all-day service to our areas.

So now Metrolinx will pay for this new ‘missing link’ – work with CN (and potentially CP) to construct the corridor, once completed, purchase Bramalea to Georgetown (Metrolinx will own the entire route from Toronto t0 Kitchener at that point) and then have the potential to add all-day service to even Kitchener. *Phew*. That’s 8 years of work.

The ‘missing link’ also has the potential to re-route CP trains off the Milton to Toronto corridor to allow all-day service on the Milton line, and also would allow GO to add service on the now un-serviced CP North Toronto subdivision – but agreements with CP are still forthcoming.

The ‘missing link’ has yet to go for Environmental Assessment approval, but planning for it is well under way. watch for more soon once details arise.

- Steve

http://gokw.org/?m=201606

On the 'extra tracks needed through Brampton' there appears to be presumptions that may not play out. If ML do all day 2W service, the need for VIA HFR is highly muted. If more tracks are needed for platforms that support local trains sitting while an express stops and proceeds first, then the station can be moved directly west where there's ample room for increasing passing tracks. If the Pearson hub is built as per "HSR", then Brampton will be by-passed altogether. And as for freight, presuming The Link is imminent, it moves temporally.

I can't see ripping apart the center of Brampton when better ways could be found to achieve the same end. And last but not least, the old station gets to stay where it is. Unless the whole line is four-tracked, then why the pressing need for it through Brampton core?

 

[TOareaFan]

https://twitter.com/GOtransit/status/851442579061305344

 

[TOareaFan]

About a year or so ago, I made the suggestion that GO just sees itself as a Lakeshore service that is ocassionally inconvenienced by having to serve people farther from the lake (I was in a particularly bad mood about the disparity of service and service improvements)....people here assured me that no they consider all lines and that I was over reacting.

Just had a convo on twitter with AMA and, again, I am not so sure they ever think of non lakeshore customers:

She really thought only Hamilton buses used the Gardiner....then when given the opportunity to check...she came back 4 minutes later and doubled down on yes just hamilton.....only when given a specific route number that was also impacted did she acknowledge it.

 

[wopchop]

On my map, north of the QEW it says "Here Be Dragons"

 

[TOareaFan]

shockingly, having told @cp24 about the hamilton delays......she deleted them from the tweets finally acknowledging the 31 would also be delayed and has not mentioned the 21 (which I think also uses the Gardiner) at all.

You would think she would immediately correct her tweet and bring the media into the fact that more than just "Hamilton" bus users are impacted.

 

[Megaton327]

About a year or so ago, I made the suggestion that GO just sees itself as a Lakeshore service that is ocassionally inconvenienced by having to serve people farther from the lake (I was in a particularly bad mood about the disparity of service and service improvements)....people here assured me that no they consider all lines and that I was over reacting.

Just had a convo on twitter with AMA and, again, I am not so sure they ever think of non lakeshore customers:

View attachment 104823

She really thought only Hamilton buses used the Gardiner....then when given the opportunity to check...she came back 4 minutes later and doubled down on yes just hamilton.....only when given a specific route number that was also impacted did she acknowledge it.

shockingly, having told @cp24 about the hamilton delays......she deleted them from the tweets finally acknowledging the 31 would also be delayed and has not mentioned the 21 (which I think also uses the Gardiner) at all.

You would think she would immediately correct her tweet and bring the media into the fact that more than just "Hamilton" bus users are impacted.

I've recently been getting dismayed with AMA's twitter conduct. She used to be quite nice and a great source of good info much like Brad Ross, but to be frank I feel that she's gotten a little flippant, snarky, easily set off/blocks lots of customers, and often gives bad info these days. Unfortunate, being ML's spokesperson.

In total, I believe the affected buses are:

• 16 Hamilton QEW Express
• 18 Lakeshore West - a few early morning/late night departures
• 21 Milton/Mississauga (with connections via Square One to many other routes such as 25 Waterloo)
• 31 Georgetown/Brampton/Bramalea

In the southbound/eastbound direction towards Union. Also, I believe GO has some garages in that direction--I know there's one in Streetsville Mississauga for instance. Not familiar enough with GO's operations to know which garages provide vehicles to USBT routes via the Gardiner Eastbound nor what times of day they send buses, but it might be a concern.

 

[nfitz]

• 18 Lakeshore West - a few early morning/late night departures

Shouldn't be much impact at that time of night, I'd think it would primarily be the Hamilton Express service that has the most impact, followed by the Square One service.

 

[smallspy]

I've recently been getting dismayed with AMA's twitter conduct. She used to be quite nice and a great source of good info much like Brad Ross, but to be frank I feel that she's gotten a little flippant, snarky, easily set off/blocks lots of customers, and often gives bad info these days. Unfortunate, being ML's spokesperson.

In total, I believe the affected buses are:

• 16 Hamilton QEW Express
• 18 Lakeshore West - a few early morning/late night departures
• 21 Milton/Mississauga (with connections via Square One to many other routes such as 25 Waterloo)
• 31 Georgetown/Brampton/Bramalea

It's funny that she's being so snotty about it - GO's own site explicitly lists those four routes as being affected by the ramp closure, with delays of up to 10 minutes. http://www.gotransit.com/Public/en/updates/schedulechanges.aspx

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[TOareaFan]

It's funny that she's being so snotty about it - GO's own site explicitly lists those four routes as being affected by the ramp closure, with delays of up to 10 minutes. http://www.gotransit.com/Public/en/updates/schedulechanges.aspx

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

I would not describe the twitter convo with me as being "snotty" just blissfully unaware that GO has customers who do not live within site of the lake She was appropriately polite....but still (right up to the point I write this) not tweeting any corrections/additions to the list of routes affected. So do not be surprised when Monday comes and media outlets (like CP24) who take her word as gospel for all things transit are communicating that Hamilton buses will be delayed due to this construction....and no one else.

 

[TOareaFan]

Shouldn't be much impact at that time of night, I'd think it would primarily be the Hamilton Express service that has the most impact, followed by the Square One service.

Given how busy a downtown we are going to have this spring in the evening (Jays/TFC starting season while Raptors and Leafs are both in the post season) I suspect there will be delays (exceeding 10 minutes) on all the evening buses that use the Gardiner....so Hamilton/31/21 will all be a mess......if only there were vehicles in the GO fleet that did not use roads (trains I think they call them )

 

[robmausser]

Under normal circumstances, this could all be done in 3 years.

So 10 years metrolinx time.

 

[micheal_can]

Given how busy a downtown we are going to have this spring in the evening (Jays/TFC starting season while Raptors and Leafs are both in the post season) I suspect there will be delays (exceeding 10 minutes) on all the evening buses that use the Gardiner....so Hamilton/31/21 will all be a mess......if only there were vehicles in the GO fleet that did not use roads (trains I think they call them )

If only they had somewhere for those buses to stop and get those people to Union.

 

[Megaton327]

Given how busy a downtown we are going to have this spring in the evening (Jays/TFC starting season while Raptors and Leafs are both in the post season) I suspect there will be delays (exceeding 10 minutes) on all the evening buses that use the Gardiner....so Hamilton/31/21 will all be a mess......if only there were vehicles in the GO fleet that did not use roads (trains I think they call them )

I wish that the 16 terminated somewhere like Port Credit, Clarkson, or Long Branch to avoid the downtown insanity. I've always been confused by the existence of that route, anyways. I understand the desire to avoid a transfer, but surely at most times of day it can't be appreciably slower to take a train to aldershot and connect to hamilton?

EDIT: I stand corrected. Substantial time savings off-peak.

At the very least, I wish that for the duration of construction they'd consider rerouting 16, 21, and 31 to terminate at Long Branch--have that be the new temporary west-side bus terminal for all affected routes. It's less than a year, anyways.

 

[smallspy]

I wish that the 16 terminated somewhere like Port Credit, Clarkson, or Long Branch to avoid the downtown insanity. I've always been confused by the existence of that route, anyways. I understand the desire to avoid a transfer, but surely at most times of day it can't be appreciably slower to take a train to aldershot and connect to hamilton?

The 16 is considerably faster than the train, with the possible exception of travelling in the peak direction during weekday rush hours. The time savings are usually anywhere from 20 to 45 minutes.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.