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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

Reecemartin said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but functionally that means the only real service which could be electrified would be UP Express. This would be great but, I think the public already has a pretty negative connotation with the UP. Is Stouffville Electrification ready? If so then that whole segment combined could form the base for a very good first RER Line, albeit not Smarttrack as it was initially proposed.

From what I've heard it seems like then Liberals are definitely not using the current infrastructure to the max, are there any theories on them waiting to do something very significant right before the election? Do they even have the rolling stock to drastically increase service?

Also upon further thought with so many projects being completed around the election would a potential PC government really not take advantage of that infrastructure to steal the current admins glory and introduce significantly improved service?
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A handful of RER trains could be bought or even leased from another transit agency and run from Union to Etobicoke North every 10 minutes all day, and be setup not only as a testing ground for the greater RER project, but as a proof-of-concept to show people "LOOK, VOTE FOR US, THIS IS WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO TO IMPROVE TRANSIT!"

Its one thing to show people studies and pretty pictures of what you plan to do, its another to build even a small prototype and show them.
 
robmausser said:
A handful of RER trains could be bought or even leased from another transit agency and run from Union to Etobicoke North every 10 minutes all day, and be setup not only as a testing ground for the greater RER project, but as a proof-of-concept to show people "LOOK, VOTE FOR US, THIS IS WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO TO IMPROVE TRANSIT!"

Its one thing to show people studies and pretty pictures of what you plan to do, its another to build even a small prototype and show them.
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Much better than that, to Bramalea, and use F59 locos about to become redundant and sold off, rebuilt five years ago, perfectly fine locos, only shortcoming being Tier II emission levels, which can be improved with an add-on kit at a slight reduction of power, but still far more than enough to drag three coach consists of the cars waiting to be be refurbished, including the older drive cab ones. They can be run on a fifteen minute headway to Union *outside of peak* when full consist trains will need the paths. (10 coaches).

This can be done in short time, possibly within a year, the rebuild of the bridge under the 401 might be a factor in limiting frequency for now.

This is almost a no-brainer to sell as PR, as new costs would be absolutely minimal. PR could read akin to: "Using what we already have to provide you with more".

When and if the electric RERs arrive, then these short trains can move on their way. That might be a long time coming, so it's quite possible we'll get our moneys-worth out of the F59s yet, not to mention the old drive-cab coaches.
 
Reecemartin said:
For whatever reason they appear to think they can only start using their corridors to their maximum capacity once every single grade has been separated, every single track has been doubled, every station has been rebuilt, and every press conference has been held.
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It won't happen then either without riders paying fares. There is only so much operating subsidy the Ontario Government is willing to kick down to them and in 2015 they went well past that number. Wynne has given them infinity capital dollars but operating dollars are locked down.

The reason for that is straight forward; operating dollars go against the current budget and create a deficit and capital dollars go against far future budgets (as interest payments) and do not create a deficit today.
 
rbt said:
It won't happen then either without riders paying fares. There is only so much operating subsidy the Ontario Government is willing to kick down to them and in 2015 they went well past that number. Wynne has given them infinity capital dollars but operating dollars are locked down.

The reason for that is straight forward; operating dollars go against the current budget and create a deficit and capital dollars go against far future budgets (as interest payments) and do not create a deficit today.
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Well, since our debt service requirements annually exceed the deficit....some might argue against the notion that interest payments don't also come out of current year operating budget ;)
 
Reecemartin said:
Alot of these ideas are great but how realistic is it that Metrolinx will do something like this? For whatever reason they appear to think they can only start using their corridors to their maximum capacity once every single grade has been separated, every single track has been doubled, every station has been rebuilt, and every press conference has been held.

The fallacy in their current line of thought is that if they don't actually present tangible and significant improvements nobody will care what they say. No number of new parking lots and yard improvements is the same as seeing a train go by every 15 or 30 minutes. (I can only imagine what the response would be with some new rolling stock)
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Reecemartin said:
In addition are there any other locations on the GTS corridor where stations could be built? One interesting idea would be to have UP trains continue running express and then some additional trains (hopefully at 15 minute frq.) making local stops, not only would this be incredibly cool but, if the line was lowered to TTC fares it could act as a great Western relief for YUS.
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I agree with all of this. And we wonder why people complain about transit.
rbt said:
It won't happen then either without riders paying fares. There is only so much operating subsidy the Ontario Government is willing to kick down to them and in 2015 they went well past that number. Wynne has given them infinity capital dollars but operating dollars are locked down.

The reason for that is straight forward; operating dollars go against the current budget and create a deficit and capital dollars go against far future budgets (as interest payments) and do not create a deficit today.
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Withholding operating dollars is completely political and ridiculous. Debt or not.
TOareaFan said:
Well, since our debt service requirements annually exceed the deficit....some might argue against the notion that interest payments don't also come out of current year operating budget ;)
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Agreed again.
 
Reecemartin said:
After spending most of my life in Vancouver I can also attest to the fact that transit oriented development is way less of a thing on the peripheral areas of Toronto's Network. In Vancouver it's amazing to see how the density drops between Expo or Millennium line stations but then each station has a cluster of at least ten towers around it. Prior to the new Evergreen Extension the route was not nearly as saturated with towers as it is now either.
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Vancouver is one of the most intensely planned cities in North Am, but that's driven by necessity of being so hemmed-in. Vancouver is unique in many ways, not all of them flattering, cost of housing and living in general being just two. Hong Kong is a more apt comparator than Toronto.
 
Reecemartin said:
Nonetheless this policy of development could certainly benefit Metrolinx.
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GO Transit's Parking Problem: Are Garages The Answer? | Urban ...
urbantoronto.ca/news/2016/10/go-transits-parking-problem-are-garages-answer
Oct 17, 2016 - Maple and Rutherford GO Transit stations on the Barrie line will be the next on the ... of parking construction to deal with anticipated increased commuter demand from ... across the network to support the anticipated ridership growth to 2031. ... peak boarders driving and parking could drop from 59% to 44%.
GO Transit and the high cost of “free” parking | Marshall's Musings
https://seanmarshall.ca/2015/11/12/go-transit-and-the-high-cost-of-free-parking/
Nov 12, 2015 - This is the first of a series on regional transit in the Greater Toronto and ... isn't the Toronto Parking Authority, nor is it a major real estate developer like Oxford (owner of… ... Eleven GO rail stations do not have any on-site parking: Union ... GO Train Stations, a reduced cash fare of between $0.50 and $0.80, ...
 
Reecemartin said:
After spending most of my life in Vancouver I can also attest to the fact that transit oriented development is way less of a thing on the peripheral areas of Toronto's Network. In Vancouver it's amazing to see how the density drops between Expo or Millennium line stations but then each station has a cluster of at least ten towers around it. Prior to the new Evergreen Extension the route was not nearly as saturated with towers as it is now either.

Perhaps the greatest testament to this style of development is the four new stations which are to be built on the Canada Line (which itself has been a massive success), the stations are being largely funded by developers who wish to build new projects on the sites. (Included map of Evergreen line is out of date as it's now a Skytrain line)
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The TTC and GO are very backwards on development. They would rather spend millions to buy property and develop their own stations versus getting money from a developer. Imagine the horror of having private money making the station integrated with the building surrounding it. It's one step towards capitalism!
 
I appreciate what you are saying about SkyTrain and TOD but SkyTrain is very different from GO. GO is a commuter service with limited service levels and a far more expensive option than regular transit. It is completely geared towards the 905 and the 9 to 5 crowd. That is starting to change but in general GO is completely irrelevant to Torontonians. If they were to stop all GO rail services in the city itself, 90% of the population wouldn't even notice and 99% wouldn't even care.
 
TOareaFan said:
Well, since our debt service requirements annually exceed the deficit....some might argue against the notion that interest payments don't also come out of current year operating budget ;)
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Yes, debt financing from debt accumulated from operating deficit and capital projects implemented years ago hits todays budget.
Typically though, the bulk of payments to contractors occur after the work. The bulk of Eglinton, for example, doesn't get invoiced for several years. Heck, even Brown won't finish paying the contractors unless he gets a second term.

The full impact of Eglinton being approved by McGuinty won't be felt until the 2023 (maybe even 2024) budget process.
 
rbt said:
It won't happen then either without riders paying fares. There is only so much operating subsidy the Ontario Government is willing to kick down to them and in 2015 they went well past that number. Wynne has given them infinity capital dollars but operating dollars are locked down.

The reason for that is straight forward; operating dollars go against the current budget and create a deficit and capital dollars go against far future budgets (as interest payments) and do not create a deficit today.
Click to expand...

The last time I checked, operating subsidies for GO were in the neighbourhood of $100 million annually. I'd really like to see someone argue that, for the ~70 million people that it carries annually, that it isn't worth the economic benefits it generates/economic losses it prevents.
 
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