GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[gweed123]

A new roll-out plan will be in place by RER that's different than that chart? Also, when do we consider RER as actually starting? Is it only when a line is electrified and there is all-day, two-way service? Would that be the 2024-2025 date that has been promised?

I think he's referring to the 2018 election changing the RER plans, specifically the election of the PCs.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

(Funny, it took John Tory a couple years to grasp this very basic reality.....)

Adding the additional fourth trackage (as far as Bramalea, anyways) is such a simple proposition. It looks like the money has shifted to Barrie and Stouffville. I hope this work can be funded asap.

- Paul

Except for the important parts, like under the 401 and through Etobicoke North and Weston and Bloor Stations. And across Dufferin St. And at the Wice interlocking.

Of course, they are slowly fixing those problems (Dufferin St. overpass is getting widened, the new tunnel under the 401 should start in 2018, planning for the updated Wice interlocking is well underway), so in theory it won't be long until they can actually start putting the fourth track into place.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Consider all that money they spent between on GTS and Georgetown to Kitchener, they should at least add the 4th track as far as Mt Pleasant.

We've seen that schedule tons of times....my post was not meant to be critical in anyway....I was just saying considering the differences between mid week and weekend travel....that is a good schedule and is sufficient to serve the needs of people going into the city on weekends and if they could replicate that sort of schedule on the other lines then, I think, people will be generally happy.

Agreed. Similar service to Mt. Pleasant, Mt. Joy, Richmond Hill, and Lisgar (or Meadowvale) would go a long way. Those would be the points that would be roughly equivalent to Aurora on the other lines, IMO.

Fair Enough.

... RER will be reworked and an entirely new rollout plan will be in place.

A new roll-out plan will be in place by RER that's different than that chart? Also, when do we consider RER as actually starting? Is it only when a line is electrified and there is all-day, two-way service? Would that be the 2024-2025 date that has been promised?

I think he's referring to the 2018 election changing the RER plans, specifically the election of the PCs.

I think at worst Brown might go to 1/2 hour service on all lines, which is fine for most.


They need to figure out a way to get all day service to Newmarket at least by next year. No more Hamilton situations.

 

[Allandale25]

Consider all that money they spent between on GTS and Georgetown to Kitchener, they should at least add the 4th track as far as Mt Pleasant.

Anything west of Bramalea probably would have required at the time the agreement of CN Rail which may not have happened and may have held up the rest of the project. Also, I think we could be in a better situation now given the Agreement in Principal for the bypass route. It just makes sense to separate passenger and freight rail where possible and where it is realistically required (IE CN won't budge).

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Anything west of Bramalea probably would have required at the time the agreement of CN Rail which may not have happened and may have held up the rest of the project. Also, I think we could be in a better situation now given the Agreement in Principal for the bypass route. It just makes sense to separate passenger and freight rail where possible and where it is realistically required (IE CN won't budge).

Well they won't budge unless Metrolinx gives them an extra 400 million, which they should. Don't do things halfway and be forced to revisit the project in 10-15 years.

 

[TOareaFan]

Anything west of Bramalea probably would have required at the time the agreement of CN Rail which may not have happened and may have held up the rest of the project. Also, I think we could be in a better situation now given the Agreement in Principal for the bypass route. It just makes sense to separate passenger and freight rail where possible and where it is realistically required (IE CN won't budge).

If you replicated that Barrie line weekend service but used Bramalea as the "aurora" you would be talking about finding room/time for 3 return trips a day on the CN owned portion. Heck, since it is weekend service you could even promise them that the trains would skip the Brampton and Mt. Pleasant stations so they would not even have to worry about trains stopped on their tracks.

A good interim service until full RER is available and it is not hard for most people in Brampton that want to get to Toronto to get to Bramalea by, either, car or bus.

 

[TOareaFan]

I think at worst Brown might go to 1/2 hour service on all lines, which is fine for most.

1/2 hour service is fine for all...might even be too much for some....but if all we had was GO service 7 days a week operating on 1/2 schedules we would be fine.

 

[robmausser]

I think at worst Brown might go to 1/2 hour service on all lines, which is fine for most.

He might do worse. Although not discussed but behind closed doors (I have some friends who worked on the Hudak Campaign) the liberal plan for GO Transit was to scrap RER entirely, and instead focus on hourly all-day 2-way service on all the GO Train lines, so that they were very similar in service to the Lakeshore line (hourly however, but with diesel bi-levels)

The other focus would have been on extensions on all lines, Bowmanville, Stratford, Bloomington, Niagara Falls, Orangeville, Bolton, Peterborough, Brantford, Cambridge, etc.

Basically getting votes from the smaller, more conservative towns and cities in Ontario. The focus would have been away from Toronto with RER, which is seen as liberal (electrification aka green, inner city stations and networks) by those from the rest of Ontario, who vote conservative, have a generally negative view of T.O and that we get all the funding from taxes, and providing a train service for the larger Ontario as a whole.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

If you replicated that Barrie line weekend service but used Bramalea as the "aurora" you would be talking about finding room/time for 3 return trips a day on the CN owned portion. Heck, since it is weekend service you could even promise them that the trains would skip the Brampton and Mt. Pleasant stations so they would not even have to worry about trains stopped on their tracks.

A good interim service until full RER is available and it is not hard for most people in Brampton that want to get to Toronto to get to Bramalea by, either, car or bus.

To be honest with you I prefer Mt Pleasant. Only because I think Brampton @ 550-600k needs all its stations covered. Same reason why I want Mulock built and the Barrie line hourly service the whole way. I like the metrolinx plans, I just wish they worked faster.

1/2 hour service is fine for all...might even be too much for some....but if all we had was GO service 7 days a week operating on 1/2 schedules we would be fine.

Agreed, 100 percent.

He might do worse. Although not discussed but behind closed doors (I have some friends who worked on the Hudak Campaign) the liberal plan for GO Transit was to scrap RER entirely, and instead focus on hourly all-day 2-way service on all the GO Train lines, so that they were very similar in service to the Lakeshore line (hourly however, but with diesel bi-levels)

The other focus would have been on extensions on all lines, Bowmanville, Stratford, Bloomington, Niagara Falls, Orangeville, Bolton, Peterborough, Brantford, Cambridge, etc.

Basically getting votes from the smaller, more conservative towns and cities in Ontario. The focus would have been away from Toronto with RER, which is seen as liberal (electrification aka green, inner city stations and networks) by those from the rest of Ontario, who vote conservative, have a generally negative view of T.O and that we get all the funding from taxes, and providing a train service for the larger Ontario as a whole.

Not surprised. But they would have lost in 2018 if they did this. I hope Brown is smarter that this.

 

[smallspy]

Consider all that money they spent between on GTS and Georgetown to Kitchener, they should at least add the 4th track as far as Mt Pleasant.

Why? What is gained by that?

Keep in mind that there are already two main tracks from Halwest - where the Weston Sub meets the Halton Sub - to Wice, where the Pearson Sub branches off and there then become three main tracks to the south-east.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[TOareaFan]

To be honest with you I prefer Mt Pleasant. Only because I think Brampton @ 550-600k needs all its stations covered.

Don't get me wrong, of course I would prefer if Mt. Pleasant was the "aurora" of that line (my "local" station is Brampton DT) but if the CN issue meant that all they could do was Aurora type weekend service to Bramalea and take 3 trains a day on weekends to KW that would probably "work".....I certainly would not delay a pretty good level of service in search of that perfection.

Same reason why I want Mulock built and the Barrie line hourly service the whole way. I like the metrolinx plans, I just wish they worked faster.

I think we are disagreeing if you think that the weekend service on the Barrie line recently announced is not good enough because all the trains don't go all the way to Barrie.

 

[TOareaFan]

He might do worse. Although not discussed but behind closed doors (I have some friends who worked on the Hudak Campaign) the liberal plan for GO Transit was to scrap RER entirely, and instead focus on hourly all-day 2-way service on all the GO Train lines, so that they were very similar in service to the Lakeshore line (hourly however, but with diesel bi-levels)

The other focus would have been on extensions on all lines, Bowmanville, Stratford, Bloomington, Niagara Falls, Orangeville, Bolton, Peterborough, Brantford, Cambridge, etc.

Basically getting votes from the smaller, more conservative towns and cities in Ontario. The focus would have been away from Toronto with RER, which is seen as liberal (electrification aka green, inner city stations and networks) by those from the rest of Ontario, who vote conservative, have a generally negative view of T.O and that we get all the funding from taxes, and providing a train service for the larger Ontario as a whole.

You meant the PC plan for GO...right?

 

[wolfewood]

You meant the PC plan for GO...right?

I could be misunderstanding him but I think he might mean the "liberal" plan, as in the most liberal spending. Implying this plan is the highest spending and best service plan we could have expected and that more conservative plans would have resulted in no service improvements or even cuts.

As an aside, I actually don't see the issue with extending GO lines per se. If upgrades to these lines were provided and the Greenbelt was strictly maintained (and expanded to new areas), these lines and extensions would provide better service to more of the province and limit the need for new highways. That said, I wouldn't trust the PCs to implement a plan like this but the concept, if tied to better Toronto-based service, wouldn't be bad in my opinion.

 

[rbt]

A new roll-out plan will be in place by RER that's different than that chart?

I don't expect a conservative majority (or minority for that matter) to rollout a Wynne transit plan during a deficit without fiddling with it. Deficit because the capital items aren't counted toward the balanced budget (nor do capital sales like Hydro); so when Conservatives redo the books they'll discover a huge deficit in the form of capital spending allowing them to implement an austerity budget for a couple years.

IMO, anything involving provincial dollars that doesn't hit financial close by June 2018 is going to be delayed by several years.


Unless Wynne somehow pulls off a majority win, that RER rollout plan is dead.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Don't get me wrong, of course I would prefer if Mt. Pleasant was the "aurora" of that line (my "local" station is Brampton DT) but if the CN issue meant that all they could do was Aurora type weekend service to Bramalea and take 3 trains a day on weekends to KW that would probably "work".....I certainly would not delay a pretty good level of service in search of that perfection.



I think we are disagreeing if you think that the weekend service on the Barrie line recently announced is not good enough because all the trains don't go all the way to Barrie.

I was trying to say to the hourly service should have stopped at Newmarket, but the can't because of the land restraints at davis drive, which is why a station is being planned at mulock drive in south newmarket. Should have been clearer.

Why? What is gained by that?

Keep in mind that there are already two main tracks from Halwest - where the Weston Sub meets the Halton Sub - to Wice, where the Pearson Sub branches off and there then become three main tracks to the south-east.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Isn't there a capacity crunch on the line from Bramlea to Georgetown.

 

[ShonTron]

If you replicated that Barrie line weekend service but used Bramalea as the "aurora" you would be talking about finding room/time for 3 return trips a day on the CN owned portion. Heck, since it is weekend service you could even promise them that the trains would skip the Brampton and Mt. Pleasant stations so they would not even have to worry about trains stopped on their tracks.

A good interim service until full RER is available and it is not hard for most people in Brampton that want to get to Toronto to get to Bramalea by, either, car or bus.

Hourly service evenings and weekends isn't a problem to Mount Pleasant, which is why GO is able to operate the midday trains there. With the track expansion that was completed about a decade ago, CN has about the same track capacity now with GO Transit hourly service as it did before it paid for a third track between Halwest (Bramalea) and Centre Street and between McMurchy Avenue and Mount Pleasant and the second track through Downtown Brampton. Anything more than hourly service plus rush hour needs the four track cross-section or the bypass. CN won't allow electrification over its freight mainline as well.

Meanwhile, Bramalea Station needs another rebuilding to permit efficient bus entry and exit and adjacent roads could use bus lanes as well -- the truck traffic on Steeles Avenue and the Brampton road network makes it very slow for buses to get to Downtown Brampton from Bramalea GO.