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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

mdrejhon said:
This is very true, but look at the large number of planned frequent services planned for the Georgetown Corridor. If Metrolinx intends to run express trains AND allstop trains (UPX, diesel Kitchener trains, SmartTrack GO RER or just GO RER) in both directions, then it starts warranting EMU performance to reliably slot trains between trains (e.g. between UPX trains). Otherwise, Metrolinx would have to scale back the Georgetown corridor plans. UPX is already a Multiple Unit, and it dramatically outperforms the existing GOtrains, so the performance profiles make it difficult to slot UPX and pre-existing GOtrains together on the existing tracks. I've made a long post in regards to this respect (two pages long). Simply put, the railroad mathematics of the Georgetown Corridor points to at least one more EMU-route, if UPX continues to stay a MU (EMU) and they intend 15-min bidirectional service with multiple trains. At peak there would be 15-min-or-better service in five directions contending a 4-track corridor; involving SmarTrack/GO RER 2-way, UPX 2-way, and Mt Pleasant peak-direction diesels, all 15-min-or-better). We haven't even talked about corridor capacity used up by Barrie RER or Milton peak trains, which presumably will use separate tracks (cramming 6 tracks through Bloor will be needed). Only EMUs allow you to tightly slot train services between trains with short headways. There's a big reason why nearly all subways use EMUs

And we haven't even merely *thought* about potential future HSR service increasing pressure towards EMUs (There is an feasibility/EA under way for this corridor now and Libs want this to happen in ten years, it's more realistically 2030s+ (delays+density+viability) to the point where HSR might replace UPX during its end-of-life as a London-Kitchener-Pearson-Kitchener route (HSR to Pearson is presumably accomplished in theory via a Woodbine Racetrack stop to a discontinued UPX spur that is converted to run a LINK extension to all Pearson terminals). This requires two of the tracks to be dedicated to HSR, bumping or mergeing services to the remaining track per direction, and EMU performance required to slot services with sufficient performance for frequent service on all.

Even without HSR -- the Georgetown corridor mathematics is going to either cause EMUs or broken promises (e.g. greatly scaled-back RER as an example). Very predictable two possible outcomes.
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Again, you have no idea what form any electrified equipment will take, so all you are doing is projecting what your expectations are. You also seem to be mistaken on what the various types of motive power are capable of.

So, to reiterate - we have precisely no idea what exactly Metrolinx will do when it comes to operating the electrified lines.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
TOareaFan said:
Press events and "announcements" like today drive me nuts.

There was absolutely nothing new "announced" no timeframes, no dates, no schedules. In fact there was nothing that was not in the election platform and/or the budget. Just another "over the next 5 years" statement.

I would love some media outlet to have the guts to just report this as "today, GO and the MoT gathered a bunch of politicians and media at a suburban rail station to announce nothing."

The service, when it gets there, will be appreciated.......but, at some point, the government has to realize the election is over and people want to see trains.....not re-announcements.
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gweed123 said:
I actually don't mind something like this. Yes, it would have been more useful if there were a few more details to pass along, but the average joe doesn't watch for announcements like this like a hawk. Repeating announcements, especially when the previous announcement was packaged in with other stuff, is useful for the average person.

It's a lot like hearing an audio announcement on an airplane in 2 languages when you speak those two languages. To you it seems repetitive and pointless, but to someone who only speaks the 2nd language it's being announced in, or was focused on something else the first time it was announced, it's useful to them.
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They did the same thing with Stouffville, and probably will do the other RER corridors over the next few weeks.

It's just about getting in the local paper or newscast for people who have never heard of RER that might catch it on the news.
 
ehlow said:
They did the same thing with Stouffville, and probably will do the other RER corridors over the next few weeks.

It's just about getting in the local paper or newscast for people who have never heard of RER that might catch it on the news.
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You think Brampton has a media industry separate from Toronto? The only local paper we have is the guardian which is owned by the Star and every time the word Brampton appears in the star you can be sure a version of that story (usually an exact replica of it) runs in the Guardian......so, in short, each of the 3 or 4 times this announcement has already been made has appeared in the local Brampton media and it gives me comfort to know that I am not the only person in town who is realizing that yesterday was an empty event that promised absolutely nothing new and gave absolutely no new information.

Kudos to Nfitz for his twitter conversation with Anne Marie Aikins....where he questioned why nothing new was announced or even the start date of some limited expansion of service which has been rumoured for September. Her response (and I generally like her responses) was that they do not like to announce things piecemeal....which, strangely, seems to me exactly what they are doing.
 
TOareaFan said:
Her response (and I generally like her responses) was that they do not like to announce things piecemeal....which, strangely, seems to me exactly what they are doing.
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Pushed a bit more, it sounds like there's more to announce this fiscal year than the off-peak day service to Bramalea, and something dependent on negotiations with CN. Not sure if it's simply the already announced additonal train from Georgetown, or the additional peak service from Kitchener ... or perhaps finally a restoration of reverse peak service to Kitchener.
 
@SwanBoatSteve: . @nfitz1 @Patrick4ONT It is quite ridiculous how often @StevenDelDuca makes non-announcements. Undermines his & govt's credibility.
 
dowlingm said:
@SwanBoatSteve: . @nfitz1 @Patrick4ONT It is quite ridiculous how often @StevenDelDuca makes non-announcements. Undermines his & govt's credibility.
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Someone should remind Steve that Del Duca's government is making the largest transit investment that Ontario has ever seen, and the largest infrastructure investment since Bill Davis. I'd say that that proves the government's credibility.
 
alexanderglista said:
Someone should remind Steve that Del Duca's government is making the largest transit investment that Ontario has ever seen, and the largest infrastructure investment since Bill Davis. I'd say that that proves the government's credibility.
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The credibility to make more broken promises? To continually recycle announcements?'

Del Duca's credibility in particular is laughable.
 
dowlingm said:
@SwanBoatSteve: . @nfitz1 @Patrick4ONT It is quite ridiculous how often @StevenDelDuca makes non-announcements. Undermines his & govt's credibility.
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I competely agree. No ministry feeds the press more pablum than the MTO, and no government agency spouts more saccharine goop than Metrolinx.
 
nfitz said:
The credibility to make more broken promises? To continually recycle announcements?'

Del Duca's credibility in particular is laughable.
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Unnfortunately, Del Duca is just continuing an existing trend.

The Big Move document, which was approved on Nov 28 2008 called for 2WAD service to Mount Pleasant in a 15-year timeframe. My math says 2008 + 15 equals 2023, but I may not be as smart as Del Duca.

You would think that 6 1/2 years later, they would have a timetable figured out - even if it's an admission that it won't happen by Nov 28 2023. (And an explanation why the update to the Big Move that was issued in 2013 still shows 2WAD to Mount Pleasant as a "First Wave" project. I wonder why the Big Move's Monitoring Report doesn't have a KPI along the lines of "Projects Actually Completed")

There is no specific capital work committed or under way that would move us any closer to 2WAD on this line. In fact, UPX has moved this backwards, in the sense that the Barrie and Kitchener trains now share a single track east of Parkdale, and the former mid-day GO service has not run in over 5 years.

My fear is that Metrolinx will open UPX, declare victory, and move on to other things.....with a vague comment that any further work in this corridor will depend on the outcome of studies and consultations regarding RER, Smarttrack, and who knows what else. And maybe restate the 15-year plan to cover the period 2015-2030, ie almost 7 years's slippage swept under the carpet.

- Paul
 
TOareaFan said:
You think Brampton has a media industry separate from Toronto? The only local paper we have is the guardian which is owned by the Star and every time the word Brampton appears in the star you can be sure a version of that story (usually an exact replica of it) runs in the Guardian......so, in short, each of the 3 or 4 times this announcement has already been made has appeared in the local Brampton media and it gives me comfort to know that I am not the only person in town who is realizing that yesterday was an empty event that promised absolutely nothing new and gave absolutely no new information.
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There is a significant number of non-English language papers in the 905. The Punjabi Post with a subscriber base of 30,000+ is one example. The Guardians claim to fame as Brampton's "only" newspaper should have a bunch of footnotes after it.

The federal Conservatives have used many of these 905 announcements to get a picture of their candidates in these local papers and I assume the provincial Liberals are mimicking this strategy.
 
muller877 said:
The federal Conservatives have used many of these 905 announcements to get a picture of their candidates in these local papers and I assume the provincial Liberals are mimicking this strategy.
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that's the rub....even with a majority....knowing they don't have to campaign for my vote for another 3+ years....these guys are still electioneering.....we have lost the art in government (of all stripes...this is a non-partisan issue) of governing for the sake of governing and everything a government does now is just viewed as a plank in their next election platform.....no matter how far away that is.
 
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