News   Jul 15, 2024
Twilight Glow
 168     0 
News   Jul 12, 2024
199 Church Showcases Heritage Facade and Artwork at Street Level
 1.7K     0 
News   Jul 12, 2024
Six Points Plaza Redevelopment Advances With 36-Storey First Phase
 1.3K     1 

GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

smallspy said:
They may LOOK similar and function the same as the existing cab cars, but structurally they are very, very different. These are built with stainless steel modules rather than aluminum, and the last 2 feet of each car is designed to compress in event of an accident - in concert with a number of other technologies and features, is commonly known as Crash Energy Management. And the 65 additional coaches on order for next year will also be built using these same features.

As the number indicates, this is the third unit built. There were photos of 301 on the assembly line in Thunder Bay floating around late last year, and 300 is apparently complete and being used for static testing.
Click to expand...
True ... I was trying to keep it simple to drive home that this wasn't a powered car.

Is 68-cars the entire order then? The rest aren't coming to 2016? Or are those 65 non-cab cars ...

Amare said:
And why would that be the case? That would be the equivalent of someone saying that the TTC's new streetcars will lead to an increase in ridership (which as we know does not happen). At best, a few 100 people will board the cab to see what it's like and it will have a negligible and temporary minuscule increase on the overall ride count.
Click to expand...
I'd agree that these cab cars shouldn't drive ridership increases.

And neither would new high-flow 15-metre TTC streetcars. However, on some routes (such as Spadina), the new streetcars should see some ridership increases from latent demand, given the inability of the current fleet from providing the best service, with cars trying to run too frequently, and decreased run times with less bunching and quicker boarding. Not to mention more accessibility.

Similar to how there's been a significant uptick in 512 ridership since the ROW was introduced.
 
Amare said:
And why would that be the case? That would be the equivalent of someone saying that the TTC's new streetcars will lead to an increase in ridership (which as we know does not happen). At best, a few 100 people will board the cab to see what it's like and it will have a negligible and temporary minuscule increase on the overall ride count.
Click to expand...

I can't explain the psychology of it, but I think it would. There's no denying the highway-sign green and rough angles of older GO vehicles looks a bit dated. And ditto for the streetcars. People see 35-year old dented, rusty clunkers trundling down the street, and they'd rather drive their Ford Fiesta. *I still like the A/CLRVs, but I have a few photos I may upload later showing their age and rough appearance.* But when they see a sleek rich red 21stC LRV snaking through the streets, and they'd probably think "hey, maybe transit is a better alternative".
 
nfitz said:
Is 68-cars the entire order then? The rest aren't coming to 2016? Or are those 65 non-cab cars ..
Click to expand...
All of them are new cab coaches, or cab cars, whichever you prefer to call 'em.

That frees up 68 old cabs to be repurposed as regular coaches, about five consists worth. Well, six consists if 11 paired with the new cabs to create 12-car trains. (11 x 6 = 66). So a nice fleet expansion bonus.
 
Amare said:
And why would that be the case? That would be the equivalent of someone saying that the TTC's new streetcars will lead to an increase in ridership (which as we know does not happen). At best, a few 100 people will board the cab to see what it's like and it will have a negligible and temporary minuscule increase on the overall ride count.
Click to expand...

The new streetcars will lead to an increase in ridership in time because the overall capacity of the system will increase. Yes, there will be a slight increase in ridership due to the new cars being new, but that is a temporary effect.

The point being made, I think, is that these 60 new cab cars will provide additional ridership because there will be 60 more cars in the fleet. Again, there may be a slight bump up in ridership because of "new things being new", but that's temporary.

nfitz said:
Is 68-cars the entire order then? The rest aren't coming to 2016? Or are those 65 non-cab cars ...
Click to expand...

60 new CEM cab cars for this year and early next, 65 new CEM coaches for 2016 and 2017. And there is an option for another 75 CEM coaches following those if needed.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
smallspy said:
Yes, there will be a slight increase in ridership due to the new cars being new, but that is a temporary effect.
Click to expand...
I doubt there'd be anything significant. And much of it robs another vehicle. Yes, I've gone slightly out-of-my way with the kids to ride on Spadina ... but I'd have been on another vehicle somewhere else.

smallspy said:
The point being made, I think, is that these 60 new cab cars will provide additional ridership because there will be 60 more cars in the fleet. Again, there may be a slight bump up in ridership because of "new things being new", but that's temporary.
Click to expand...
Ah, that's true I suppose. Though 60 more cars represents what, maybe a 10% increase to GO's rail capacity? The new streetcars represent almost a 50% increase in capacity. Over 65% if you account for recent decision to retain 30 ALRVs, and over 90% if the council agrees to TTCs request for 60 more new cars instead.

smallspy said:
60 new CEM cab cars for this year and early next, 65 new CEM coaches for 2016 and 2017. And there is an option for another 75 CEM coaches following those if needed.
Click to expand...
And there's about 600 cars already? I guess that's closer to 30%.

Certainly all the additional trains that will be running will increase ridership! But I doubt that it's the nose or paint that does it. (I have to say, the new paint is growing on me).
 
nfitz said:
Certainly all the additional trains that will be running will increase ridership! But I doubt that it's the nose or paint that does it. (I have to say, the new paint is growing on me).
Click to expand...
Also anticipate them utilizing most of the idled trains during offpeak (15-min allday, and in both directions, with electric locomotives), so we'll see a system-wide 200%+ average increase in offpeak service over the coming years, given many GO routes currently have no offpeak or very rare offpeak service.
 
Last edited:
Patrick Searle ‏@Patrick4ONT 8m8 minutes ago
9AM FRI: @StevenDelDuca to annc #MoreGOService at #Bramalea GO w @HarinderMalhi @AmritMangat_MPP @dhillonvic & Mayor @LindaJeffrey #brampoli
 
Amare said:
And why would that be the case? That would be the equivalent of someone saying that the TTC's new streetcars will lead to an increase in ridership (which as we know does not happen).
Click to expand...

It's a bit premature to suppose this since there have only been 3~ cars in service for a few months.
 
mdrejhon said:
The dramatic increase to 15-minute service on several GO lines will consume a large number of bilevels, as well as new coaches created by the discontinued cabs (they would create roughly 5 new 12-car trainsets), and they still won't be enough.
Click to expand...

I question this. There are an abundant number of trainsets sitting idle already, outside of peak hours. I just got back from visiting New Jersey Transit, who run 4500 trips a week with 120 trainsets, versus GO running 1600 trips a week with roughly 70 trainsets. GO's trainset utilisation is not a system strong point.

The real question is, what is the life expectancy for the older (2000-series, and counting) bilevels. They are 35+ years old, and aluminum. How much attrition is expected in the next decade?

The crash standards are the driver for the new cab cars. There were several accidents in Los Angeles which established that BBD could improve its design. This isn't just a crew issue, it affects the passenger space also.

- Paul
 
Barrie line alone is getting a 200 percent increase in offpeak service alone, as seen in the announced 5 year plan. Now imagine all routes getting equally dramatic increases. It will increase even further with the RER service up to Aurora.

Mathematically, NJ Transit runs 37.5 trips per week per trainset (4500/220) and GO runs 22.9 trips per week per trainset (1600/70). Going to 15 minute service is going to dramatically increase weekly trainset use by more than 2x.

Peak period utilization will push limits. To execute the 10 year RER plan, they need more trainsets than they do today, since RER on all 5 lines, plus greatly increased service on the remaining, concurrently with allday diesel outer-suburbs service, durig offpeak, will run the GO trainsets harder than today's peak. Without even expanding peak.

Faster electric trains will turnover the trains faster, albiet to a limit.
 
Last edited:
Interestig aside, as I was typing this, the train felt like it was smoothly going at full speed, so I loaded up the GPS speedometer app:

Speaking of speed, the Lakeshore express GO train I am currently sitting on, departed slightly late, and sustained the full speed limit of 145 kph for a longer period than usual (a full minute?) during a long stretch before Port Credit. Probably to carch up with schedule. Rarely see the speed sustained more than about thirty seconds or so, as the 145kph-rated rail sections do not stretch the full Lakeshore corridor. I see 135s and 140s more often.

image.jpg


I hope these speeds will be far more frequent with RER.
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    134.7 KB · Views: 568
mdrejhon said:
Barrie line alone is getting a 200 percent increase in offpeak service alone, as seen in the announced 5 year plan. Now imagine all routes getting equally dramatic increases. It will increase even further with the RER service up to Aurora.

Mathematically, NJ Transit runs 37.5 trips per week per trainset (4500/220) and GO runs 22.9 trips per week per trainset (1600/70). Going to 15 minute service is going to dramatically increase weekly trainset use by more than 2x.

Peak period utilization will push limits. To execute the 10 year RER plan, they need more trainsets than they do today, since RER on all 5 lines, plus greatly increased service on the remaining, concurrently with allday diesel outer-suburbs service, durig offpeak, will run the GO trainsets harder than today's peak. Without even expanding peak.

Faster electric trains will turnover the trains faster, albiet to a limit.
Click to expand...

As we move to RER over the next 10 years, we will not need 10-12 trains on all lines all the time. As we move to EMU equipment, you will be able to break trains down or up faster and cheaper than trying to do it with today equipment.

The biggest issue to get trains on lines is crews and until that happen, service will increase slowly.

Based on my travel between PC and Burlington, you still can get away with 5 cars off peak.

As we know, faster run and turn around with EMU will require less train sets to be on the line to maintain better service.

Keep in mind about NJ, most trains are single level while ours DD.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top