GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[Northern Light]

Metrolinx is in the process of appointing a consultant to prepare a 2051 Regional Transit Plan, which should provide more details on the next round of service expansions.
They're at the reviewing proposals stage.

Metrolinx - Abstract - RFP-2023-INND-438 - Rfp-2023-innd-438: Provision Of 2051 Regional Transit Plan

www.metrolinx.merx.com

I do wish government agencies/depts of all stripes would cut down on the 'Consultant Enrichment Program'.

The reality, in this case, is that the 2041 plan is nowhere near delivered.

There is no imminent need to add to the shopping list.

ROWs can and should be protected for; but you don't need a consultant for that, you need an MZO.

There are too many plans and strategies and too few $$$ to deliver them.

That said, I don't mind an 'update/refresh' of the existing plan, IF, there's real movement behind the scenes to add, remove, or alter in scope one or more projects.

But that's an Mx/Political decision over which a consultant drawing fanciful lines has no control.

Just have the-inhouse staff add or delete some lines/dots on a map as required, produce a 2-page explainer as to what was changed and move on.

Official Plans generally have a lifespan of about 30 years, and serious plans for Transit or Parks, or much of anything else should be about the same. No need to reinvent the wheel for six or seven figures every decade.

 

[Willybru21]

Are there any plans of extending GO transit into Central Ontario with bus or rail service? I am thinking of places like Orilia, Midland or Collingwood.

No plans right now from what I know

 

[Richard White]

Are there any plans of extending GO transit into Central Ontario with bus or rail service? I am thinking of places like Orilia, Midland or Collingwood.

As far as I'm aware the rail lines in Collingwood and Orillia are derelict.

I suspect that the lines heading into Midland may be similarly abandoned.

In any case, repairs to and perhaps even new installation of tracks may be required to facilitate this.

 

[ShonTron]

As far as I'm aware the rail lines in Collingwood and Orillia are derelict.

I suspect that the lines heading into Midland may be similarly abandoned.

In any case, repairs to and perhaps even new installation of tracks may be required to facilitate this.

It's been discussed many times before.

All tracks in and around Orillia have been abandoned - the Midland line from Orillia was abandoned in 1990, the track between Barrie, Orillia, and just south of Washago abandoned in 1996. Though most of these CN lines were converted to trail between Barrie, Orillia, and Midland, several sections were built upon. The track in downtown Collingwood was taken up around this time, though freight service to plants on Collingwood's outskirts continued under BCRY for another 15 years. That track is impassable west of the CP junction at Utopia.

 

[Allandale25]

What poor research.

The 23:34 Kitchener Line train has been operating since September 5 and terminates at Mount Pleasant, not Kitchener.

Looks like this article below from September 15th made the same error? I'm a little confused what is happening here. @reaperexpress @Northern Light

Changes to Kitchener line GO Transit service beginning on Monday | Globalnews.ca

There will be a new train departing Union Station in Toronto for Kitchener on Monday night, which will replace five buses.

globalnews.ca

 

[reaperexpress]

Looks like this article below from September 15th made the same error? I'm a little confused what is happening here. @reaperexpress @Northern Light

Changes to Kitchener line GO Transit service beginning on Monday | Globalnews.ca

There will be a new train departing Union Station in Toronto for Kitchener on Monday night, which will replace five buses.

globalnews.ca

It's the same article.

 

[Allandale25]

It's the same article.

Sorry, you're right. I meant to post this one from "1460 CJOY" but I just noticed that they just used the September 15th version of the above-noted Global News article.

Changes to Kitchener line GO Transit service beginning on Monday

There will be a new train departing Union Station in Toronto for Kitchener on Monday night, which will replace five buses.

cjoy.com

 

[micheal_can]

As far as I'm aware the rail lines in Collingwood and Orillia are derelict.

I suspect that the lines heading into Midland may be similarly abandoned.

In any case, repairs to and perhaps even new installation of tracks may be required to facilitate this.

I was not thinking rail, but the Bus service GO has. Kind of a way to build the demand for rail if there ever is enough for it.

 

[chrisw]

The 2041 RTP builds on municipal TMPs and officialplans (OPs) and integrates them into a coherent andlogical plan for the whole region. Strong municipalleadership provides a foundation for some of the regionwide approaches in this plan, and remains crucial tothe success of these approaches.

We already have many other 2051 year plans. I don't see a problem with incorporating the 2041 plan and getting an update. Another 25 year plan. And Doug Ford would've been in office for 8 years. They'll get to influence this plan.

 

[Sunnyside]

We already have many other 2051 year plans. I don't see a problem with incorporating the 2041 plan and getting an update. Another 25 year plan. And Doug Ford would've been in office for 8 years. They'll get to influence this plan.

In any case, it is good to review and update master plans like this. First, Metrolinx has been clear they re-examine it every five years. Second, as you have said, the RTP is made up of municipal TMPs, so really this is an exercise in centralization. Why is this valuable? Well, many of those TMPs have only been updated in the last 5 years, most of which are planning to the 2051 horizon (they may actually be required to). Some TMPs are out, some are not. York Region for instance has their 2051 TMP, but Halton is currently working on updating their 2031 TMP. So to reiterate, we are centralizing the most up-to-date TMPs, but also factoring in the changes at Metrolinx/their approach given their growing experience, in our government, and after COVID; travel patterns have undoubtedly changed, and I have seen the data for some places- it exists- but it won't be public until the TTS for 2023 is released. Furthermore, growth projections will likely be adjusted, which ways I don't know. Really we are fine-tuning the same document since the Big Move.

I do wish government agencies/depts of all stripes would cut down on the 'Consultant Enrichment Program'.

The reality, in this case, is that the 2041 plan is nowhere near delivered.

There is no imminent need to add to the shopping list.

ROWs can and should be protected for; but you don't need a consultant for that, you need an MZO.

There are too many plans and strategies and too few $$$ to deliver them.

That said, I don't mind an 'update/refresh' of the existing plan, IF, there's real movement behind the scenes to add, remove, or alter in scope one or more projects.

But that's an Mx/Political decision over which a consultant drawing fanciful lines has no control.

Just have the-inhouse staff add or delete some lines/dots on a map as required, produce a 2-page explainer as to what was changed and move on.

Official Plans generally have a lifespan of about 30 years, and serious plans for Transit or Parks, or much of anything else should be about the same. No need to reinvent the wheel for six or seven figures every decade.

Something that is going to clearly be in the 2051 RTP that was not in the 2041 version is the "interregional LRT" ie, the 403-407/OL Light Metro. I also anticipate a trimming of the 'priority bus corridors' because nothing has happened on any of them to date (from Metrolinx) afaik, and the Ford Government has been going big or going home- they will likely consolidate into bigger projects, which is actually what I'd want to see from Metrolinx and an RTP in general. Meddling with smaller stuff is pointless if they won't actually do anything, and with 3 LRTs open by the time the RTP is done, we might know if we should be planning for more and where. Still, methodologies almost seem fishy when corridors like Dufferin clearly need significant enhancement but is merely a priority bus corridor. I've seen some of the scorecard breakdowns in reports, but it Isn't really showing a table of data or anything, just the conclusions the planners/consultants got to with that data. This corridor approach seems to be quite lacking in identifying areas of high demand; a new piece of RT might be viable or prudent somewhere, but we won't know if there's a bunch of parallel bus corridors handling that demand, which makes the status quo look fine- until it isn't. The RL/OL is an example of this- we're building it at the twelfth hour. I'm thinking something like directional flows- if x amount of people are cumulatively commuting to say, Kipling to get downtown from Mississauga on five corridors, then the math works out differently than if we just look at Dundas alone, for instance.

Side note, I really don't understand why most agencies don't publish their monthly ridership reports. These break down R/C ratios, ridership, boardings/km, and much more by route, and I don't see how they are worthy of being confidential or even negligible. Yes, anyone can ask for it, but it'd be a lot easier for the public to understand decisions being made in things like the RTP/TMPs if we could see all the relevant numbers.

 

[lenaitch]

I was not thinking rail, but the Bus service GO has. Kind of a way to build the demand for rail if there ever is enough for it.

Of the three, only Orillia is served by ONR bus. The County's 'Linx' bus system serves C'Wood and Midland (and Orillia) along with other areas of the County with small capacity buses. It is intended to facilitate inter-community travel, not as an extension of longer distance commuter travel. In-town stops are are at college campuses, hospitals, etc. not GO/ONR stops. The service is in it fledgling year; service is pretty basic but it is slowly expanding.

 

[ShonTron]

Of the three, only Orillia is served by ONR bus. The County's 'Linx' bus system serves C'Wood and Midland (and Orillia) along with other areas of the County with small capacity buses. It is intended to facilitate inter-community travel, not as an extension of longer distance commuter travel. In-town stops are are at college campuses, hospitals, etc. not GO/ONR stops. The service is in it fledgling year; service is pretty basic but it is slowly expanding.

There are two direct GO-Linx transfers: the Alliston-Beeton route to Bradford GO, and the Wasaga Beach-Stayner route at Allandale Waterfront. I’ve taken three of the six Linx routes.

Only the Collingwood-Wasaga Beach bus runs weekends, and there’s no fare integration between Barrie Transit, Linx, and GO.

A transit tour of central Ontario

A round trip from Toronto via Guelph, Owen Sound, and Barrie is the longest trip one can take using only local and regional transit services. Despite these new links, there is room for improvement.

seanmarshall.ca

 

[reaperexpress]

There are two direct GO-Linx transfers: the Alliston-Beeton route to Bradford GO, and the Wasaga Beach-Stayner route at Allandale Waterfront. I’ve taken three of the six Linx routes.

Only the Collingwood-Wasaga Beach bus runs weekends, and there’s no fare integration between Barrie Transit, Linx, and GO.

A transit tour of central Ontario

A round trip from Toronto via Guelph, Owen Sound, and Barrie is the longest trip one can take using only local and regional transit services. Despite these new links, there is room for improvement.

seanmarshall.ca

It's always struck me as a missed opportunity that the Barrie-Midland and Barrie-Orillia routes terminate at Georgian College on the edge of Barrie rather than continuing to Allandale Waterfront Station via downtown. Of course extending the routes would increase operating costs, but you'd think that they'd make that back from extra ridership heading to/from downtown Barrie as well as connecting to other transit routes at Barrie Terminal or Allandale Waterfront.

 

[micheal_can]

It's always struck me as a missed opportunity that the Barrie-Midland and Barrie-Orillia routes terminate at Georgian College on the edge of Barrie rather than continuing to Allandale Waterfront Station via downtown. Of course extending the routes would increase operating costs, but you'd think that they'd make that back from extra ridership heading to/from downtown Barrie as well as connecting to other transit routes at Barrie Terminal or Allandale Waterfront.

Sounds like this could be a future expansion of the service.

 

[lenaitch]

It's always struck me as a missed opportunity that the Barrie-Midland and Barrie-Orillia routes terminate at Georgian College on the edge of Barrie rather than continuing to Allandale Waterfront Station via downtown. Of course extending the routes would increase operating costs, but you'd think that they'd make that back from extra ridership heading to/from downtown Barrie as well as connecting to other transit routes at Barrie Terminal or Allandale Waterfront.

Perhaps. Maybe in the future as the system expands and they grow ridership (and the buses get larger). They do actually connect with several Barrie Transit routes that pass through both Georgian College and RVH. The initial demand was for people to be able to go to school and connect with the regional health centre.