GO Transit Fleet Equipment and other

[drum118]

Would be interesting to know if there is a broader plan or whether they are just marking time. The burst of enthusiasm for building CEM cabs appears to have passed, but if there was a notion of having locomotives at both ends of future hybrid or electric consists, squeezing a bit more life out of Series 2 cabs in the meantime might make economic sense. But I wonder what the locomotive engineers think about it - wasn’t one of the selling points of the CEMs a much better driving cabin?

in the UK, most passenger trains that I have seen have the Series 2 cab/UPX DMU 3000's cab at one end with power at the other end that are 3-9 cars long. Seen a few in Europe. Most of Europe use an CEM type cab at one end with power at the other end.

The Series 2 Cab offer less space for an engineer than CEM. Europe and the UK don't have conductors like we do with riders sitting across from the engineer in place of an conductor.

CEM cab style can be found on EMU/DMU at both end that are power with only the driver in it in Europe. Since the law of NA require 2 person cabs, the Series 2 cabs are setup that way with a door blocking riders to them.

CEM vs Series 2 is safety for everyone at the end of the day dealing with freight traffic than GO Trains, but still safety at the end of the day. The Series 2 cabs will mostly be assign to ML corridors only from my point of view. See no issues with it until it decided what the fleet will look like in the coming decades and electrifying the system. Once we move to 15 minute service, most trains will be less than 10 cars long with a lot of 6 packs off peak.

 

[Krypto98]

in the UK, most passenger trains that I have seen have the Series 2 cab/UPX DMU 3000's cab at one end with power at the other end that are 3-9 cars long. Seen a few in Europe. Most of Europe use an CEM type cab at one end with power at the other end.

The Series 2 Cab offer less space for an engineer than CEM. Europe and the UK don't have conductors like we do with riders sitting across from the engineer in place of an conductor.

CEM cab style can be found on EMU/DMU at both end that are power with only the driver in it in Europe. Since the law of NA require 2 person cabs, the Series 2 cabs are setup that way with a door blocking riders to them.

CEM vs Series 2 is safety for everyone at the end of the day dealing with freight traffic than GO Trains, but still safety at the end of the day. The Series 2 cabs will mostly be assign to ML corridors only from my point of view. See no issues with it until it decided what the fleet will look like in the coming decades and electrifying the system. Once we move to 15 minute service, most trains will be less than 10 cars long with a lot of 6 packs off peak.

I believe the bigger issue is potentially hitting a loaded dump truck. Which the cems could withstand probably.

 

[drum118]

I believe the bigger issue is potentially hitting a loaded dump truck. Which the cems could withstand probably.

Its a safety issue period. It makes no different what hits that dump truck or what, someone can be injury, kill, equipment badly damage, come off the tracks or rollover depending on the speed of the train as well what it hit. Grade crossing accidents happens almost weekly/monthly in NA to all RR at one time or another.

CEM will withstand a hit better than the Series 2 just like a locomotive. If the Series 2 are on lines with next to no grade crossing, they stand a better chance of not hitting anything other than dumb trespassers.

 

[RS3488]

Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t the refurbishment make them a bit more safer in terms of structure?

 

[smallspy]

But I wonder what the locomotive engineers think about it - wasn’t one of the selling points of the CEMs a much better driving cabin?

The crews are not crazy about the old cabs. They are cramped and the layout is awkward.

I believe the bigger issue is potentially hitting a loaded dump truck. Which the cems could withstand probably.

That hasn't been a problem historically for the old equipment, either. There have been lots of grade crossing incidents over the years at all of the properties that operate BiLevels, the train generally doesn't get much damage as a rule.

Accidents involving rail-on-rail equipment, on the other hand, is what the CEM cars are actually designed to deal with. Thankfully, that isn't something that is all that common on the various commuter networks.

Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t the refurbishment make them a bit more safer in terms of structure?

How is that supposed to happen exactly? All they did was reinstall some piping and electrical wires, replace the interior panels, and repaint them.

Dan

 

[RS3488]

Along with the 6 packs returning, there is something else to note.

Loco 558, an F59PH, has been placed on a 6 pack by itself and is running on some of the off peak Kitchener, Barrie, and Stouffville trains. I remember the F59s were only being used for the London and Niagara trains for the past few months.

 

[Allandale25]

 

[RS3488]

What options could be chosen. The only new passenger locomotives in the market at the moment is the Siemens Charger and EMD F125, although I suspect an Alstom built locomotive could be in the running too.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

What options could be chosen. The only new passenger locomotives in the market at the moment is the Siemens Charger and EMD F125, although I suspect an Alstom built locomotive could be in the running too.

Well, Metra just took delivery of Progress Rail’s SD70MACH which I pray Metrolinx isn’t considering. Pictured below.

If I was EMD, I’d try to bid hard with the F125. The initial kinks with the Metrolink (USA) delivery seemed to be worked out, and they need more customers to compete with Siemens. One would assume they have more manufacturing capacity available too. F125 pictured below.

Who knows, maybe there is a wildcard in the mix, maybe a new model of locomotive? Time will tell!

 

[RS3488]

Well, Metra just took delivery of Progress Rail’s SD70MACH which I pray Metrolinx isn’t considering. Pictured below.

Well while I doubt Metrolinx will order refurbished freight locos, there is a part of me that actually thinks these locomotives be rebuilt used locomotives.
Considering that the procurement process still isn't done and the locos are expected within less than 2 years, it seems less and less likely 8 locos could be built shipped and delivery to MX within such a short time frame.

Keep in mind there are a lot of used passenger locomotives entering the market, it would also be a lot cheaper then buying 13 new locomotives.

 

[Willybru21]

Well while I doubt Metrolinx will order refurbished freight locos, there is a part of me that actually thinks these locomotives be rebuilt used locomotives.
Considering that the procurement process still isn't done and the locos are expected within less than 2 years, it seems less and less likely 8 locos could be built shipped and delivery to MX within such a short time frame.

Keep in mind there are a lot of used passenger locomotives entering the market, it would also be a lot cheaper then buying 13 new locomotives.

There’s also an option in the contract to extend it to a total of 33 new locomotives, but I’m not sure if this affects on weather it’ll be second hand or brand new ones.

 

[cplchanb]

Well while I doubt Metrolinx will order refurbished freight locos, there is a part of me that actually thinks these locomotives be rebuilt used locomotives.
Considering that the procurement process still isn't done and the locos are expected within less than 2 years, it seems less and less likely 8 locos could be built shipped and delivery to MX within such a short time frame.

Keep in mind there are a lot of used passenger locomotives entering the market, it would also be a lot cheaper then buying 13 new locomotives.

dont even give via a chance to buy more walking dead locos. the last thing they need to rejuvenate are more old second hadn equipment. weve been spending 60 years on used cars.

 

[cplchanb]

If I was EMD, I’d try to bid hard with the F125. The initial kinks with the Metrolink (USA) delivery seemed to be worked out, and they need more customers to compete with Siemens. One would assume they have more manufacturing capacity available too. F125 pictured below.

Who knows, maybe there is a wildcard in the mix, maybe a new model of locomotive? Time will tell!

Its more like they need a customer PERIOD. this thing hasnt sold to a single customer after the first batch.

 

[T3G]

dont even give via a chance to buy more walking dead locos. the last thing they need to rejuvenate are more old second hadn equipment. weve been spending 60 years on used cars.

I don't think you appreciate that transportation agencies don't govern themselves on cheap populist soundbites like "walking dead locos".

They are a business, and so money will guide the decision making process. New equipment will be procured if it is the cheaper choice. On the other hand, second hand equipment will be purchased, or old stock refurbished, if that comes down to being the more economical choice. This is it. There is no secret conspiracy to disgrace the Canadian rail industry, or purposefully withhold new equipment from passengers out of spite, it is an economic move to save money.

Now I will disclose I do not, obviously, have access to any operator's financial information and to see what they are or aren't thinking. But if the decision making process ends up favouring old equipment, are you willing to pay extra fare to get new equipment? In times of inflation like this, we should be avoiding frivolous spending. If we can get a better deal through second hand or refurbishing, we should be doing just that.

 

[cplchanb]

I don't think you appreciate that transportation agencies don't govern themselves on cheap populist soundbites like "walking dead locos".

They are a business, and so money will guide the decision making process. New equipment will be procured if it is the cheaper choice. On the other hand, second hand equipment will be purchased, or old stock refurbished, if that comes down to being the more economical choice. This is it. There is no secret conspiracy to disgrace the Canadian rail industry, or purposefully withhold new equipment from passengers out of spite, it is an economic move to save money.

Now I will disclose I do not, obviously, have access to any operator's financial information and to see what they are or aren't thinking. But if the decision making process ends up favouring old equipment, are you willing to pay extra fare to get new equipment? In times of inflation like this, we should be avoiding frivolous spending. If we can get a better deal through second hand or refurbishing, we should be doing just that.

considering we are paying a hefty price to scrape the living out of the HEP fleet just to keep them alive is proof enouigh that the frugalness in the long term doesnt work. try replacing these end of life relics now with the parts shortages and extreme inflation. we have no choice but to contiunue to waste money on these obsolete dinos.