GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

[crs1026]

According to ROW, timeline for Kitchener Central to open is 2029.

Does it sound like Ottawa and Ontario just agreed to fast track it?

Not to me.

- Paul

 

[lastcommodore]

Respectfully no. If the Province spent millions of dollars on Bloomington GO which exists in the middle of literal nothing and only has 4 departures and 5 arrivals a day from it, why on earth can KW not get a GO Station that connects to the billion dollar LRT system? Kitchener GO already has 20 departures and arrivals a day which is more than Bloomington and it has the capability to connect to the busiest public transit routes in KW (LRT, 7, 8) why on earth would one not want that? KW isn't some tiny thing in the middle of nowhere, there's well over 400k people living in the cities, yet if you want to get from the LRT to the GO Station you need to walk ten minutes down a busy and unfriendly road or you take a bus connection from the LRT which are on routes that operate every 15-30 minutes, that's quite frankly ridiculous.

Your comment also reinforces the fact that the province generally seems to forget that KW exists, it's not like they're a small region. When you look at public transit every other city just gets money thrown at them for capital cost without the cities paying for anything, obviously they are Metrolinx projects so ownership is with the province but even still the cities should still pay their fair share. Hamilton, Hurontario, Finch, and Ontario Line all have the cities paying for nothing, meanwhile you got Waterloo Region paying a third of the LRT cost the least they can have is a GO Station that connects right to the LRT after the Region spent so much on the LRT, it really isn't that big of an ask.

I'm sorry, but it appears we have a misunderstanding? I was commenting on whether or not higher frequencies were possible without building a new station, i do not know what that had to do with everything you wrote.

I am supportive of the new station, I was stating that higher frequencies is possible without having to rebuild it, not that it should not be rebuilt.

 

[kotsy]

More bridge deck has been installed over the future Broadview extension at East Harbour Station, filling in the gap between first two sections.

 

[nfitz]

I got confused, I thought we were talking about Breslau station.

Fair enough ... Waterloo's "B"-starting German place names are designed to confusing. In addition to Breslau and Baden, there's also Bamberg ... Berlin is gone these days though. Bloomingdale and Bridgeport nearish Breslau don't help either.

And then there's the adjacent W townships. Wilmot, Woolwich, Wellesley, and Waterloo ... some of which border/bordered Wellington County. I'm not sure I ever quite got those straight when I lived there - it didn't help that historically parts of Woolwich Township used to be Waterloo Township.

 

[ShonTron]

Have they thought about renaming Breslau to something more contemporary, like Wroclaw?

 

[reaperexpress]

respectfully disagree, i don't see how the current terminal cannot handle even 30 minute service
Is there some problem with the current terminal I don't see, other than it's kinda old and kinda a walk from the ion?

The current station can absolutely handle hourly service, so it should be fine for planned off-peak service. However, the existing 30-minute peak service would be a bit tight when combined with hourly counter-peak service, which is likely why Metrolinx told the Region of Waterloo in 2019(?) that they wanted the platforms at the new Kitchener station to be complete by September 2023 when they were planning to start hourly off-peak and counter-peak service in addition to the existing 30-minute peak service. (Obviously that ambition has long since faded within Metrolinx).

Here's a quick back-of-the-envelope timetable based on the existing (Breslau) and under construction (Guelph, Acton) double-track segments. There is also a siding connecting the Kitchener Shirley Yard to a crossover about 600m east of the station. It appears that it would be at least 14 minutes from when one train departs the Kitchener GO platform to when the next train is scheduled to arrive, which is sufficient given that one of the trains in question will be arriving from the yard and only needs to travel 600m from that siding to the platform.

Bottom line, it does indeed appear that the current station can support the planned 30-minute peak and 60-minute counter-peak service, though it would use the entire capacity of the station during peak periods. This would explain why the Kitchener second platform is no longer shown on Metrolinx's list of requirements for hourly two-way service to Kitchener.

The 30-minute peak service is only possible because of the existing siding just east of the station. Full 30-minute two-way service would not be possible, because trains would need to get from Guelph station to that siding in 15 minutes, which is not currently possible. A solution could be to extend the Breslau double track westward across the bridge that Metrolinx is currently replacing.

In the longer term a second platform would definitely be a good idea to provide more capacity and resilience, but the current station doesn't seem to be an impediment to the intial rollout of hourly service.

 

[Coolibop]

Update on the Scarborough durham BRT from a local councillors newsletter on the Pickering segments (roughly Whites Rd to Brock Rd):

Managed to pull additional slides with a bit more timeline information, and a couple of renderings I hadn't seen before from an upcoming DRT meeting. Nice to see the CN bottleneck (C) has timeline associated now...

And an overhead of what I assume is a 'typical' stop:

 

[Northern Light]

Managed to pull additional slides with a bit more timeline information, and a couple of renderings I hadn't seen before from an upcoming DRT meeting. Nice to see the CN bottleneck (C) has timeline associated now...

View attachment 726225
View attachment 726228
View attachment 726229

And an overhead of what I assume is a 'typical' stop:
View attachment 726231

Much better shelter design than Eglinton Crosstown I'll say that!

Now, will they run the requisite service? I think it should be (at least) every 10M M-F 6am-8pm, and S-S 8am-8pm, with every 15M or better through 12:30am nightly.

 

[Coolibop]

Now, will they run the requisite service? I think it should be (at least) every 10M M-F 6am-8pm, and S-S 8am-8pm, with every 15M or better through 12:30am nightly.

That would be nice and got me looking.

I notice they seemed to add a 5 min two-way goal for the project on both the regional and Metrolinx pages... I don't recall that being present but the way back machine suggests it's been there a while... Unfortunately, I don’t have much confidence in the stated goal of achieving that, given Metrolinx’s historical delivery record/moving goalposts. With many of the required components still unfunded (Toronto/Whitby/Oshawa), I don’t see any clear path to service improvements beyond what Durham Region is already advancing on its own.

The 5 minute target is more of an aspirational end state. With the project now stretching well into the 2030s (and probably later?) I’m not convinced it’s being actively tracked in a meaningful way. Demand in Durham has risen a few percentage points recently (once post‑secondary declines are factored out), and that has driven some minor incremental frequency improvements along the corridor. Still, those gains fall short of the level of service you’re expecting. This all said with the usual regional challenge of high taxes and the pressure to trim budgets.

 

[reaperexpress]

respectfully disagree, i don't see how the current terminal cannot handle even 30 minute service
Is there some problem with the current terminal I don't see, other than it's kinda old and kinda a walk from the ion?

I did some back of the envelope calculations and it looks like I overestimated the constraints on the schedule. It does indeed appear that the existing station has enough capacity for the initial hourly service plan, including the 30-minute peak-direction service.

I've updated my previous post above with the approximate timetable and my updated conclusions.

 

[ShonTron]

Those Durham BRT shelters remind me of those on Pie-IX in Montreal.

 

[Metroscapes]

Fair enough ... Waterloo's "B"-starting German place names are designed to confusing. In addition to Breslau and Baden, there's also Bamberg ... Berlin is gone these days though. Bloomingdale and Bridgeport nearish Breslau don't help either.

And then there's the adjacent W townships. Wilmot, Woolwich, Wellesley, and Waterloo ... some of which border/bordered Wellington County. I'm not sure I ever quite got those straight when I lived there - it didn't help that historically parts of Woolwich Township used to be Waterloo Township.

Have they thought about renaming Breslau to something more contemporary, like Wroclaw?

Ultimate solution: move it easterly and call it Shantz Station.

 

[urbancog]

It does indeed appear that the existing station has enough capacity for the initial hourly service plan, including the 30-minute peak-direction service.

Just to emphasize, that means all that's holding back AD2W hourly service to Kitchener (with 30-minute peak direction service) are these items: Guelph station second track, Acton station second track, grade separating GO and CN tracks east of the Credit River bridge (not at Silver, which is west of Georgetown).

The additional dedicated track between Bramalea and Silver is needed for 30 minute service to MT Pleasant but not for hourly Kitchener service.

Instead of building the Heritage layover yard, they should have focused on the grade separation first.

 

[reaperexpress]

Just to emphasize, that means all that's holding back AD2W hourly service to Kitchener (with 30-minute peak direction service) are these items: Guelph station second track, Acton station second track, grade separating GO and CN tracks east of the Credit River bridge (not at Silver, which is west of Georgetown).
View attachment 726305

The additional dedicated track between Bramalea and Silver is needed for 30 minute service to MT Pleasant but not for hourly Kitchener service.

Instead of building the Heritage layover yard, they should have focused on the grade separation first.

Exactly. Furthermore, the Acton second track is only required for the weekday counter-peak service. Hourly midday and weekend service only needs the Guelph second track.
The Silver Junction grade separation (which indeed consists of a flyover not particularly close to Silver Junction) was not originally considered a requirement for hourly service to Kitchener in the original business case. But it has since been added as a requirement, presumably based on pressure from CN.

Even if we assume that the Silver grade separation is in fact required for hourly service between Mt Pleasant and Georgetown, we could start running hourly service between Kitchener and Guelph as soon as the Guelph second track is complete. The eastern half of that track was already completed last year as part of the second platform construction, we're just waiting on the western half now. I'd love if they added an intermediate deliverable of "60-min all-day Kitchener to Guelph" following the completion of the Guelph second track.

 

[nfitz]

Have they thought about renaming Breslau to something more contemporary, like Wroclaw?

I'm not sure a parallel ethnic cleansing would have gone down in Ontario. Sigh ...