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General railway discussions

Bordercollie said:
Even if it doesn't even out to zero some savings going uphill and regeneration down hill to use uphill is still fuel and money saved.
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Yes, but.....

If you are using batteries, you need to drag those batteries uphill. If they are not charged, then they are going to simply be adding weight to the total train - and therefore, reducing efficiency and requiring additional fuel to be used.

Dan
 
crs1026 said:
This very principle is why mining railways who must transload to ship are the ones piloting the technology. By definition, the mine is uphill and the sea/lake is downhill. So gravity charges the batteries while the loads are en route to port, and the charged battery brings the empty trains back to the mine.

The challenging part is when uphill and downhill don’t match. Calgary is 3428 feet above sea level, Kicking Horse Pass is 5338 feet, and Vancouver is at sea level. Something (like catenary) is needed to equalise the loads and regenerations, and charge batteries as needed. And containers coming out of Vancouver aren’t empty. So it’s more complicated.

- Paul
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I think there is a coal mine in Germany that is on a hilltop, and there is a truck that actually generates net positive energy rolling the coal downhill, and feeds it back to the grid/mine load.
 
reaperexpress said:
Only just now a feasibility study? Jeez this thing is slow. They got federal approval from both Canada and USA, what, three years ago?
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More than that; it was March 16, 2015. They even designed the facility in March 2009. My guess is that whatever feasibility study had previously been done is out of date, especially with the changes resulting from COVID. I do agree that this project seems to be slower than molasses in January.

Interestingly, I thought Pacific Central Station in Vancouver had preclearance, but apparently they only have "pre-inspection" which only deals with immigration admissibility, and the trains are still inspected for customs at the border.
 
roger1818 said:
More than that; it was March 16, 2015. They even designed the facility in March 2009. My guess is that whatever feasibility study had previously been done is out of date, especially with the changes resulting from COVID. I do agree that this project seems to be slower than molasses in January.
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Wow. Amazing how little push it has been getting, considering that Amtrak has described it as a prerequisite to adding a second daily round trip to Montreal (extending the Vermonter). It isn't technically a prerequisite, but it would definitely increase cross-border travel demand on their services.

When I made my own conceptual design for the Montreal pre-clearance facility I had no idea that they had already made a conceptual design. Unsurprisingly we both came up with pretty much the same design independently. Track 23 is remarkably well suited for a customs facility.

roger1818 said:
Interestingly, I thought Pacific Central Station in Vancouver had preclearance, but apparently they only have "pre-inspection" which only deals with immigration admissibility, and the trains are still inspected for customs at the border.
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From Pacific Central, Amtrak does need to stop at the border heading into the US, but coming into Canada they can run non-stop to Pacific Central and clear Canadian customs there. It acts basically like full pre-clearance in one direction (post-clearance, I guess) and pre-inspection in the other. I assume that following that 2015 agreement they also plan to upgrade Pacific Central to full pre-clearance.
 
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reaperexpress said:
From Pacific Central, Amtrak does need to stop at the border heading into the US, but coming into Canada they can run non-stop to Pacific Central and clear Canadian customs there. It acts basically like full pre-clearance in one direction (post-clearance, I guess) and pre-inspection in the other. I assume that following that 2015 agreement they also plan to upgrade Pacific Central to full pre-clearance.
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This article in November 2019 claimed that could be coming soon, but I gather COVID (and the resulting cancelation of Cascades service to Vancouver) delayed things.
 
roger1818 said:
This article in November 2019 claimed that could be coming soon, but I gather COVID (and the resulting cancelation of Cascades service to Vancouver) delayed things.
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For Toronto that means that for passengers boarding between Toronto and Niagara would not be able to cross the border.

Or half the train would still need to get off marking it pointless.

If you made it express to Niagara then if you live in Oakville you need to travel to Toronto first to ride the train.

Doesn't make much sense.
 
Bordercollie said:
For Toronto that means that for passengers boarding between Toronto and Niagara would not be able to cross the border.

Or half the train would still need to get off marking it pointless.

If you made it express to Niagara then if you live in Oakville you need to travel to Toronto first to ride the train.

Doesn't make much sense.
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So are you saying that Vancouver (and Montreal) shouldn't have pre-clearance because it doesn't make sense to also have it in Toronto? Typical. :rolleyes:
 
Bordercollie said:
That's not what I said. I was specifically talking about Toronto.
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But the discussion is about Vancouver and Montreal. Preclearance in Toronto makes absolutely no sense and will never happen, so who cares. Niagara Falls (either NY or Ontario) and either Windsor or Detroit might make sense, but Toronto is too far from the boarder (using any reasonable rail route) for it to be even worth considering.
 
^With the Maple Leaf having been gone for so long, I haven't had a chance to see for myself - but my question is, what level of technology do the agents use when they clear trainloads of people these days?

My impression with air and auto travel is, the agents are bound to their computer terminals to tell them if a person is OK to admit. Their verbal questions tend to be peripheral to the computer's decision.

When I flew back from LAX last week, there was a passport check on the gangway, with border service officers using handheld phone-like devices to scan passports. But LAX probably has lots of wifi and similar base units installed.

I wonder if the IT is as much a challenge to clearing customs on a moving train as the physical security issues are.

- Paul
 
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