General cycling issues (Is Toronto bike friendly?)

[txlseries4]

Once act 212 passes the entirety of the bloor, university and yonge bike lanes must be removed as that is what's in the act states. nothing about bloor west is in the act. i expect the removals to start pretty quickly once it passes.

That's now how I read the legislation, and the government has refused to confirm if it's specific sections or if they intend on removing it all. It certainly reads ("shall remove") that something will be removed, but "Subject to any prescribed exceptions or modifications" keeps this from being clear about how much will be impacted.

Existing lanes in the City of Toronto, direction to remove

195.6 Subject to any prescribed exemptions or modifications, the Minister shall remove the bicycle lanes located on Bloor Street, University Avenue and Yonge Street, in the City of Toronto, and any related features, and restore the lanes for use by motor vehicle traffic.

Here's a link to the amendment that I converted to a pdf from the images MPP Jessica Bell shared: https://archive.org/details/amendment_202411

 

[TheGrimSweeper]

Can someone look at this photo on Bloor West and help me understand how removing it will help anything? It's not wide enough to get another lane of traffic.

Are we spending tax money to make a gutter lane? Like what is the point?

 

[bearcat]

Can someone look at this photo on Bloor West and help me understand how removing it will help anything? It's not wide enough to get another lane of traffic.

Are we spending tax money to make a gutter lane? Like what is the point?View attachment 614655

If you look at Google Maps street view from let's say 2014 at this location there used to be four car lanes. To restore this stretch back to four car lanes the curb on the south side including the raised bike lane and I guess part of the sidewalk and the raised bus stop in the bike lane would be removed. This would be awful & cost $$$, but Doug does not care, and it is doable.

Imho, this section of Bloor, as well as new section from Spadina to Avenue and the new section of University from College to just before Queen are COMPLETELY INSANE to remove, as this would require probable a full reconstruction of the road, shutting down the roads at least partially for probably many weeks and costing $$$$ to actually unquestionably make traffic WORSE at least in the short term.

Keep in mind two of those sections literally just opened this year, including I think the first fully protected bicycle intersection downtown at St. George, which was probably in the planning for many years. All of this is going to be destroyed.

I legitimately cannot comprehend the idiocy of this government.

 

[txlseries4]

Can someone look at this photo on Bloor West and help me understand how removing it will help anything? It's not wide enough to get another lane of traffic.

Are we spending tax money to make a gutter lane? Like what is the point?

This is what that stretch (Bloor x Brunswick) looked like in 2013 before any bike lanes, so presumably it’d go back to that. Drivers will feel all warm and fuzzy until Uber drivers are stopping in the new driving lane instead of the bike lane lol

 

[nfitz]

Once act 212 passes the entirety of the bloor, university and yonge bike lanes must be removed as that is what's in the act states. nothing about bloor west is in the act. i expect the removals to start pretty quickly once it passes.

I expect the that the city will start some kind of legal challenge to it - likely under Section 7 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms ("7 Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.")

Even if the city loses, I'm sure skilled lawyers can drag it out for many years.

 

[TheGrimSweeper]

If you look at Google Maps street view from let's say 2014 at this location there used to be four car lanes. To restore this stretch back to four car lanes the curb on the south side including the raised bike lane and I guess part of the sidewalk and the raised bus stop in the bike lane would be removed. This would be awful & cost $$$, but Doug does not care, and it is doable.

Imho, this section of Bloor, as well as new section from Spadina to Avenue and the new section of University from College to just before Queen are COMPLETELY INSANE to remove, as this would require probable a full reconstruction of the road, shutting down the roads at least partially for probably many weeks and costing $$$$ to actually unquestionably make traffic WORSE at least in the short term.

Keep in mind two of those sections literally just opened this year, including I think the first fully protected bicycle intersection downtown at St. George, which was probably in the planning for many years. All of this is going to be destroyed.

I legitimately cannot comprehend the idiocy of this government.

See my rational and logical brain thinks surely cooler heads must prevail.

It's one thing to remove the Etobicoke Bloor ones which has a lot of local backlash and is most painted lines. That could probably be done fast.

There is no local desire to remove these downtown ones that were complete streetscape projects and put the streets back into construction for months on end, causing massive disruptions to everyone there with no benefit to it.

 

[evandyk]

I expect the that the city will start some kind of legal challenge to it - likely under Section 7 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms ("7 Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.")

Even if the city loses, I'm sure skilled lawyers can drag it out for many years.

Olivia Chow has not been sounding like she intends to launch any legal challenge. She keeps referring to how the city got spanked in its challenge to the changes to city council during the election.

I do think that even though they'd likely lose a constitutional challenge, there's a good chance of getting an injunction to delay implementation of the legislation until the challenge has been dealt with, if that's what the city wants to spend its money on (constitutional challenges are expensive, though a lot less expensive than $48M worth of bike lane deconstruction).

 

[innsertnamehere]

the painted lanes sections can and likely will be ripped up fairly cheaply.

Bloor Street has only been fully reconstructed for bike lanes between Bathurst and Avenue Road though. the rest of it is all 'just paint' and can be converted quickly and cheaply back to 4 lanes.

The reconstructed parts of Bloor anecdotally don't operate particularly differently than they did beforehand in terms of traffic, as the curb lane was always almost continuously blocked anyway.

Where it is slower is through Central downtown and out eastwards to the Prince Edward Viaduct, which had a wider road pre-lanes and more consistently had 4-lanes of traffic available for cars and already had turn lanes at intersections, unlike further west.

 

[nfitz]

Olivia Chow has not been sounding like she intends to launch any legal challenge. She keeps referring to how the city got spanked in its challenge to the changes to city council during the election.

I do think that even though they'd likely lose a constitutional challenge, there's a good chance of getting an injunction to delay implementation of the legislation until the challenge has been dealt with, if that's what the city wants to spend its money on (constitutional challenges are expensive, though a lot less expensive than $48M worth of bike lane deconstruction).

Even if Chow doesn't launch one, council itself may choose that option.

 

[evandyk]

Where it is slower is through Central downtown and out eastwards to the Prince Edward Viaduct, which had a wider road pre-lanes and more consistently had 4-lanes of traffic available for cars and already had turn lanes at intersections, unlike further west.

Construction has been taking up lanes there, which is causing some congestion, though once you get east of Church, that area is not really that congested.

 

[81-717]

and can be converted quickly and cheaply back to 4 lanes

Just because it can, doesn't mean it should.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Just because it can, doesn't mean it should.

I agree to be clear - just discussing the logistics of Ford's harebrained scheme.

If Ford wanted to refute the City's claim of it costing $48 million to rip out the lanes, he just needs to convert only the sections which are "painted" in. That would cost like a million bucks at most.

 

[evandyk]

Ford will probably tell the city to do the painted sections right away, which creates the worst possible situation, which is that a ton of cyclists rejoin mixed traffic at places like Bloor and Ossington, causing traffic chaos. Drivers and cyclists alike consistently reported that as a very negative experience when the lanes ended at Ossington.

 

[Obsidian]

See my rational and logical brain thinks surely cooler heads must prevail.

It's one thing to remove the Etobicoke Bloor ones which has a lot of local backlash and is most painted lines. That could probably be done fast.

There is no local desire to remove these downtown ones that were complete streetscape projects and put the streets back into construction for months on end, causing massive disruptions to everyone there with no benefit to it.

The bill makes it clear that the entirety of the Bloor, Yonge and University bike lanes must be removed when it becomes law. There is no grey area where only part of them is removed.

 

[TheGrimSweeper]

The bill makes it clear that the entirety of the Bloor, Yonge and University bike lanes must be removed when it becomes law. There is no grey area where only part of them is removed.

Minus the clause right in the front of it:
"195.6 Subject to any prescribed exemptions or modifications, "