General cycling issues (Is Toronto bike friendly?)

[EnviroTO]

I'm not sure if that's just a joke, or minimum spends are actually a thing?

No, the point was being made that people can live with bikes and they achieve it by not buying a trunk load of groceries but rather a couple of bags. When people hear I don't own a car it is often things like picking up groceries that seems beyond the realm of possibility for them. "They ask how do you get groceries??" and I say "I walk into grocery store, grab a basket, pick out the things I want, check out, and walk out... how do you do it?" I don't use my bike that much either, but admittedly I probably would if Eglinton Connects was ever completed.

 

[Admiral Beez]

No, the point was being made that people can live with bikes and they achieve it by not buying a trunk load of groceries but rather a couple of bags. When people hear I don't own a car it is often things like picking up groceries that seems beyond the realm of possibility for them. "They ask how do you get groceries??" and I say "I walk into grocery store, grab a basket, pick out the things I want, check out, and walk out... how do you do it?" I don't use my bike that much either, but admittedly I probably would if Eglinton Connects was ever completed.

I own two cars and still grab the bundle buggy and walk over to my local No Frills. Today we walked over to Loblaws at Maple Leaf Gardens. If you live downtown and are able-bodied you don’t need a car for groceries. But I would never use my bicycle due to risk of bike theft. I intentionally do not own a bike lock - if I’m not bringing my bicycle I inside at my destination, I’m not going by bike. Bikeshare is great for this otoh.

 

[TheGrimSweeper]

Drone shot of the University ride. BTW does anyone not see the glaringly obvious solution here? Convert that parking pane past the lights into a traffic lane and your done. Both sides win.

 

[DSC]

Yes, but not all drivers follow the law. I normally ride in the middle of the vehicle lane on roads where there isn't a bike lane or where the bike lane is obstructed.

If a driver rear ends you, the physical evidence of you being rear ended would also likely be more decisive than if you were sideswiped and lost balance (for example). This makes it easier to take legal action against the driver.

If you are still alive!

 

[bearcat]

Drone shot of the University ride. BTW does anyone not see the glaringly obvious solution here? Convert that parking pane past the lights into a traffic lane and your done. Both sides win.

I think if any street actually needs on-street parking and/or pick-up and drop-off areas is University due to he hospital on both sides.

Now Richmond and Adelaide need to have parking banned.

 

[littlewill1166]

If you are still alive!

Let's say you try to stay close to the curb. If you get sideswiped because someone is trying to squeeze past and misjudge the clearance between their car and your bike, you lose balance and get run over by another car behind you. You could also be dead! But then it's far less clear-cut about who's wrong, and it opens the door to he said she said...

Or, what's more likely, you'll get doored! This is why I ride at least the width of a door away from parked vehicles when travelling at high speeds (which often means the centre of the lane).

As a motorcyclist we’re drilled in training about defending or surrendering your ROW - you can be resolutely right and dead or sensible and live.

You can also be resolutely right and live, you can also try to be sensible and die (see scenario above). You can also be sensible and right at the same time (this is the best combination). There are more than two combinations.

I think what's more important is that you drive, walk, and bike, in a way that is commensurate to your personal risk tolerance, skill level, and ability while taking into account external conditions.

 

[Natika33]

Yes, but not all drivers follow the law. I normally ride in the middle of the vehicle lane on roads where there isn't a bike lane or where the bike lane is obstructed.

If a driver rear ends you, the physical evidence of you being rear ended would also likely be more decisive than if you were sideswiped and lost balance (for example). This makes it easier to take legal action against the driver.

Thank you for answering. Indeed, I suspect many drivers don't even know they're supposed to leave one metre. The reason I asked is because there are a lot of people arguing online that the bike lanes take up more room than if cyclists just stick to the side of the road, but you've just helped me confirm that's not always true. There are many spots where cars pass closer to bikes when there's an official bike lane than they'd technically be allowed to if there was no lane at all.

 

[Admiral Beez]

You can also be resolutely right and live, you can also try to be sensible and die..

Oh yes, we all see such confirmation bias in our lives, seeking the anecdotes and hearsay where people doing the safe thing died and those who pushed the limits arrived unscathed. But the odds are on the sensible, defensive rider. Let’s say I’m one of those Mamil types,, and I ride in the middle of the lane and hold up vehicular traffic, one day someone is going to be pissed and run me over, and the ghosts of my ancestors will be asking, wtf why didn’t you just keep right?

 

[evandyk]

Because keeping right is often more dangerous as it encourages drivers to try to squeeze by and possibly miscalculate the width of their mirror. Or you keep right and they pass close while you have to make a last minute dodge of some obstacle and their mirror clips you. The chance of you actually being run down while you occupy the lane is smaller than one of those miscalculations.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

I've been neglecting coming into this thread for the past few weeks as it has been a tad depressing as of late.

At present, I am traveling through Europe and have been explaining to people what is happening to Toronto's cycling lanes and they look at me with such disbelief. They literally cannot comprehend the sheer idiocy of the provincial government's actions. To every person I explained the situation to, removing these key inner-city bike lanes is like removing a limb from your body. It makes us look like a complete laughing stock across the entire globe.

It is gaining international news too, the Guardian has picked up on the story:

Removing Toronto bike lanes will make traffic worse, official document shows

In preparation for plan, Ontario has indemnified itself from liability if cyclists are killed on streets that once had bike lanes

www.theguardian.com

As a side-note, one thing that I noticed a lot in Europe is that the bike lanes tend to be at the same grade as the sidewalk, not the vehicular lane. I think this would help a lot with reorienting peoples minds that the bike lane is not taking space away from vehicular traffic. I second the post above suggesting the City replace the bike lanes with sidewalk extensions lol. Hell, install landscaping on the former bike lanes and once the DoFo government is gone, reinstall the bikelanes between the landscaping and the pedestrian sidewalk. We'll hopefully never have to revisit this sad period again with such a design.

 

[afransen]

I've been neglecting coming into this thread for the past few weeks as it has been a tad depressing as of late.

At present, I am traveling through Europe and have been explaining to people what is happening to Toronto's cycling lanes and they look at me with such disbelief. They literally cannot comprehend the sheer idiocy of the provincial government's actions. To every person I explained the situation to, removing these key inner-city bike lanes is like removing a limb from your body. It makes us look like a complete laughing stock across the entire globe.

It is gaining international news too, the Guardian has picked up on the story:

Removing Toronto bike lanes will make traffic worse, official document shows

In preparation for plan, Ontario has indemnified itself from liability if cyclists are killed on streets that once had bike lanes

www.theguardian.com

As a side-note, one thing that I noticed a lot in Europe is that the bike lanes tend to be at the same grade as the sidewalk, not the vehicular lane. I think this would help a lot with reorienting peoples minds that the bike lane is not taking space away from vehicular traffic. I second the post above suggesting the City replace the bike lanes with sidewalk extensions lol. Hell, install landscaping on the former bike lanes and once the DoFo government is gone, reinstall the bikelanes between the landscaping and the pedestrian sidewalk. We'll hopefully never have to revisit this sad period again with such a design.

I like this idea. We should replace the bike lanes with temporarily expanded sidewalks and landscaping, so they can easily be converted back to bike lanes in future.

 

[Natika33]

I've been neglecting coming into this thread for the past few weeks as it has been a tad depressing as of late.

At present, I am traveling through Europe and have been explaining to people what is happening to Toronto's cycling lanes and they look at me with such disbelief. They literally cannot comprehend the sheer idiocy of the provincial government's actions. To every person I explained the situation to, removing these key inner-city bike lanes is like removing a limb from your body. It makes us look like a complete laughing stock across the entire globe.

It is gaining international news too, the Guardian has picked up on the story:

Removing Toronto bike lanes will make traffic worse, official document shows

In preparation for plan, Ontario has indemnified itself from liability if cyclists are killed on streets that once had bike lanes

www.theguardian.com

As a side-note, one thing that I noticed a lot in Europe is that the bike lanes tend to be at the same grade as the sidewalk, not the vehicular lane. I think this would help a lot with reorienting peoples minds that the bike lane is not taking space away from vehicular traffic. I second the post above suggesting the City replace the bike lanes with sidewalk extensions lol. Hell, install landscaping on the former bike lanes and once the DoFo government is gone, reinstall the bikelanes between the landscaping and the pedestrian sidewalk. We'll hopefully never have to revisit this sad period again with such a design.

It's my understanding that the road-level bike lanes are a quick and cheap way to build out the network and that they'll raise them to sidewalk height at some point in the future likely at the same time other roadwork is planned so that it can be done efficiently all at the same time.

 

[Obsidian]

My pessimism is moderated by my suspicious that this is just posturing that the province will back down from once they get their real priority advanced (413) and the election has passed. Maybe the point was just to introduce the legislation and get a lot of media attention, then let it die when the election is called.

Th legislation specifically mandates the remove of bike lanes on bloor, yonge and university, once it passes next week those bike lanes must be removed by law.

 

[Obsidian]

Part of me hopes this will end after the low hanging fruit is addressed. Bloor West and Yonge from what I remember are really only painted lines and could be removed quickly, to give Doug his quick win before spring election.

I really struggle to imagine Doug wants to put the entirety of University and Bloor under construction for the next year to address their full removal. Where the city would have t o be involved for utilities, street posts etc. In many cases on Bloor it would not even give a lane of traffic back (unless they removed the on street parking).

Insane traffic caused by totally unnecessary construction on those roads during the election I can't see them wanting (but who knows).

Once act 212 passes the entirety of the bloor, university and yonge bike lanes must be removed as that is what's in the act states. nothing about bloor west is in the act. i expect the removals to start pretty quickly once it passes.

 

[TheGrimSweeper]

Once act 212 passes the entirety of the bloor, university and yonge bike lanes must be removed as that is what's in the act states. nothing about bloor west is in the act. i expect the removals to start pretty quickly once it passes.

Does it actually though? They add stuff to that bill last minute and keep changing it all the time.