Northern Light
Superstar
This is an utterly ridiculous statement. So far gone its irredeemable. You're capable of much better.
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Free speech or hate speech??
- Thread starter Fresco
- Start date
This is an utterly ridiculous statement. So far gone its irredeemable. You're capable of much better.
Jasmine18
Senior Member
Well lets divide the left into groups...
Libertarian left
Centrist Left
SJW crazy left
Its that part of the left that act authoritarian usually and if they had their way would ban everyone who goes against them.
Johnny Au
Senior Member
Where would Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot fit?
TheKingEast
Senior Member
Read Jasmine's past posts and it will all make sense.
Jasmine18
Senior Member
Are you guys denying that anti-free speech and authoritarian elements exist in the modern left?
Videodrome
Senior Member
Ben Shapiro is an idiot. Let him go on with his bad takes. I actually like Joe Rogan in small amounts. Jordan Peterson is the king of the incels.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Please, if you look at the history of censorship the right (and I don't mean the hard right) has just as much, if not more of a track record in the West - and I would argue that they have been far, far more effective at using government powers to do so.
Anyone who throws around SJW as a derogatory term just tells me more about where they stand than anything else. And no, The Ward News isn't the same as casual racism at some corner of Twitter - it is systematic and of the basest nature. If you can't recognize that as a problem and immediate dovetail to Peterson et al. there is something seriously wrong. Also go on Twitter yourself and actually look at the kinds of crud that no one would have tolerated n the public sphere 2, 3 decades ago. Yes, go on and tell me that we have always tolerated Nazi BS because of "free-speech".
AoD
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Jasmine18
Senior Member
I love how you mock 'free-speech' as some nuisance as frankly unlike yourself I have lived in a society and country that does have real free speech, so it's easy for people here in Canada to undervalue it.
Jasmine18
Senior Member
I go to college and most of the students in any sort of debate in class or politics or history class, never say what they really think because they are scared what the very small tiny fragment which we refer to the "SJW" will react to.
The Term SJW is an insult, not mocking social justice but frankly mocking those people for their rather terrible methods for promoting social justice.
Like you ever hear about the Evergreen Colllege Scandal, and tell me SJW types should not be mocked ...
The Controversy of Bret Weinstein Explained — The Evergreen Scandal
Bret Weinstein is an evolutionary biologist who made national headlines for being racist. So… what exactly happened? Was he simply being…
blog.usejournal.com
Northern Light
Superstar
First off, your statement doesn't make sens as is, I will assume you meant ' lived in a society that does not have real free speech....' if I am incorrect in that assertion please explain further.
Second....I see nothing mocking free speech in @AlvinofDiaspar 's response. Rather he is asserting, and he can correct me if I'm misreading here, that the term 'free speech' has been used to defend things never meant to be covered
by free speech as that phrase was originally intended.
Northern Light
Superstar
I go to college and most of the students in any sort of debate in class or politics or history class, never say what they really think because they are scared what the very small tiny fragment which we refer to the "SJW" will react to.
The Term SJW is an insult, not mocking social justice but frankly mocking those people for their rather terrible methods for promoting social justice.
Like you ever hear about the Evergreen Colllege Scandal, and tell me SJW types should not be mocked ...
The Controversy of Bret Weinstein Explained — The Evergreen Scandal
Bret Weinstein is an evolutionary biologist who made national headlines for being racist. So… what exactly happened? Was he simply being…
First off, have you in fact spoken w/all, or even many of the students in question to establish that they actually hold views, that they are actually not sharing, on account of potential reaction?
You'll have to forgive me for being skeptical that this is more your assumption than established fact.
Be that as it may,.......as someone who graduated with a degree in History ...........and had many a university level debate, though admittedly the last one was awhile back............
I don't recall that many shy people or lack of disagreement in classes.
There have always been those who were easily offended..........but I don't see that inspiring mass fear that is dampening reasonable comment.
Jasmine18
Senior Member
I think Peterson has grown much bigger than the fringe incel community really...like you are telling me the tens millions of people who watched his videos are incels including me who is a female lol?
He pretty much has a monopoly on the concept of "crisis with male masulinity" which I think is a legitimate issue but I dont agree with his ideas mostly.
His Opponents pretty much ignored this area and now Petterson has pretty much open impunity to spread his ideas with ease.
Northern Light
Superstar
I haven't spent much time listening to the first two....................
In fairness.........albeit in passing, I know Jordan..........
I don't really see that as a fair characterization of the man.
He promotes some ideas that I find intellectually dubious.............or in the spirit of dismantling some lesser light of opposing views he's been guilty of over-reach.
But as a married guy with a kid.......not sure 'incel' fits in describing him; nor do the views he promotes come off as anti-female or misogynist..........
Rather they are flawed for their linkage to GOD and/or what evolution intended.............and they seem, at times, to suggest that evolution has ended.
In that, Jordan holds some views not born out by evidence. He's also guilty of enjoying being provocative and understanding the same is good for his pocket book.
No problem w/critiquing him, but lets be sure and keep it within the bounds of reason; the same reason we might critique him for departing from at times.
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Jasmine18
Senior Member
I have brought up the case with evergreen college so its not all just assumptions there are real world examples...
Here is another...
Things have changed quite a lot in the past 5 years or so...Like you may have heard the joke that if George Carlin did comedy today he would likely face cancel culture lol
Another example: Didn't senior members of staff try to compare Peterson to Hitler at waterloo university lol
Lindsay Shepherd says she had to record meeting that spurred Jordan Peterson lawsuit | Globalnews.ca
Nathan Rambukkana and Herbert Pimlott, who teach at Wilfrid Laurier University in Waterloo, Ont., maintain their comments about Peterson were not defamatory.
globalnews.ca
Now tell me how does that not stifle the sharing of ideas at university when you have staff at universities thinking in such stupid ways.
(actually that case sort of sent a chill across Universities so i think things have calmed down now a bit)
Northern Light
Superstar
I have brought up the case with evergreen college so its not all just assumptions there are real world examples...
Here is another...
Things have changed quite a lot in the past 5 years or so...
Didn't senior members of staff try to compare Peterson to Hitler at waterloo university lol
Lindsay Shepherd says she had to record meeting that spurred Jordan Peterson lawsuit | Globalnews.ca
Nathan Rambukkana and Herbert Pimlott, who teach at Wilfrid Laurier University in Waterloo, Ont., maintain their comments about Peterson were not defamatory.
Now tell me how does that not stifle the sharing of ideas at university.
(actually that case sort of sent a chill across Universities so i think things have calmed down now a bit)
There's no question that the way Lindsay Shepherd's case was handled (in the first instance) was weird, unreasonable and unacceptable.
But it was also relatively anomalous; to use that example and suggest a widespread issue is reaching.
Also she never faced jail (which is what free speech protection is supposed to prevent); she faced a reprimand of sorts.
One I think was ill-advised...........and motivated by reasons never clear to me............
Though I will say, anyone who heard Ms Shepherd speak subsequently will be aware she is not without a political agenda...........and that her choice of material may not have been entirely academic.............
Though that still does not excuse the nonsense that followed. But nor does it make it anything systemic; or something that can be compared with either the substance of the Hate Speech in 'Your Ward News', nor the actions
which such speech then wrought.