I predict Liberal majority. The Cons will implode, and the Dippers and Greens will cancel each other out. We are seeing the historic destruction of the NDP and the ascendency of the Greens as the third place party.
You might be right.I predict Liberal majority. The Cons will implode, and the Dippers and Greens will cancel each other out. We are seeing the historic destruction of the NDP and the ascendency of the Greens as the third place party.
Let’s stop the Justin blabbering. It was Harper’s dithering that got us to the point where Trudeau could further screw up the file.You might be right.
It's hard to believe that Canadians could be that stupid - but 4 years ago we proved that we are.
The mess they made with fighter jets is one in a long line of terrible policy ideas they stumbled through.
An interesting scenario. Because if the F-35 is selected, it'll be the result of the open competition everyone claims they wanted. Canada's reputation will be in the toilet if after an open competition, the government refuses to procure because what they liked didn't get picked. It's definitely a possible scenario though.However, from the polls I assume the next government will be a Liberal minority supported by the Greens and NDP. I wonder if such a government would go ahead with the F35.
It’s the same with the EH-101, With Mulroney’s Conservative government, in office since 1984 doing nothing for three years on the Sea King replacement before announcing in 1987 the purchase of the EH-101, but not a single aircraft was delivered by the time the Liberals took over government five years later in 1993.
We like to complain about it, but from my time in the US, they aren't substantially faster than us. What they do that is better is the recognition that the Defence Industrial Base/Complex needs to be preserved. So procurement is run on cycles that limit gaps in production. We're trying to do that with shipbuilding in Canada. But not in other sectors of defence or government procurement. Why, for example, does the General Dynamics plant in London not have steady employment from armoured vehicles being bought for the Army? Or the Bombardier rail plant in Thunder Bay? Our planning sucks at creating sustainable and predictable business streams.Canadian governments take too damn long to procure military kit, so that nothing is irrevocably underway before the government changes.
I think it comes down to which aircraft wins. If the Cons win and the F-35 is selected, would they really not procure? I doubt it.If the Liberals lose in October we can expect another five years of delays while the Cons work to undo whatever little progress on the fighter project the Liberals have made.
From the list of eligible suppliers, Saab Aerospace's JAS-39 Gripen is the cheapest in terms of unit price. There are a gazillion different ways to calculate 'cost' (procurement, cost-per-flight-hour, life-cycle, etc.) plus other things like training, industrial offsets, and on and on, and each one can be calculated different ways and guaranteed to start fights among competing affectionados.In the mid-1960s Canada chose the Northrop F-5 Freedom Fighter, building the Canadair CF-5. It was considered a bad choice for the CAF, being low tech and low capability.
If Canada were to repeat this for the CF-18 replacement, what's the absolute lowest priced, but diplomatically feasible (so, no HAL Tejas or CAC JF-17) option Canada could choose? It could either be second-hand as F-35s begin global deliveres (such as ex-Belgium F-16s or more F-18As) or cheap new-builds.
I suppose the closest thing to the CF-5 today is the British Aerospace Hawk 200. The low supersonic (VD of Mach 1.2) Hawk 200 is AIM-120 AMRAAM armed, has a longer combat range than the CF-18 and more than capable of dropping bombs on the Third World despots the RCAF seems to be fighting since the Cold War.
But what's your suggested cheapo option for the RCAF?
Sorry, boss. I'm not able to give a knowledgeable answer to that. I'm not sure an aircraft that is that old with 'low mileage' exists. The way I understand it, the RAAF Hornets are no younger than the ones we have. They simply allowed us to put more planes in the air to address the stated 'capability gap'. Like anything else, as machines get older their maintenance gets higher and you get into major component replacement. A lot of existing US aircraft are getting really miled-out waiting for the F-35 to come online, and they have their ANG to keep equipped. I think older Mirages and Eurofighters aren't capable of being upgraded to a level that would allow us to operate effectively for any length of time, if at all. It seems the biggest upgrade factor these days (stealth aside) is technology rather than airframe/performance, and some of the older stuff simply can't accommodate it. There are upgraded version of both the F-15 and F-16 but I don't know if they exist on more than paper.@lenaitch what about second hand aircraft? We’re operating former RAAF Hornets now and operated former USAF F-101 Voodoos and ex-USN Banshee fighters. Outside of fighters, we’re operating second hand Leopard 2 tanks, submarines, RCN supply ships, and former American Lockheed Martin VH-71 helicopters (US variant of EH-101).
So, what cheap used fighters could the RCAF buy? Are there any low mileage 10-15 year old F-16s, F-18s or even Mirages and Eurofighters?
As mentioned, KAI and BAE aren't on the list so they won't be players. A challenge many of the light aircraft available, indeed a problem even the 'front line' ones have, is range, especially in terms of our NORAD commitment as well as some NATO roles such Iceland air policing. In-flight refueling is necessary and not all of the light fighters have that capability. Many also lack sophisticated or at least robust offensive and defensive electronics.A single seat KAI T-50 Golden Eagle would be nice. Though we already operate the Hawk trainer, so the Hawk 200 makes sense in the reduced fighter-strike role. The upcoming Boeing T-X looks like a contender....
Of course I want a proper, latest Gen fighter for the RCAF, and the F-35 is the best pick. So above I’m just suggesting what the accountants might want as the lowest possible cost for the CF-18 whilst still keeping to our NORAD commitments.
Not at all. It means they’ll soldier on into the mid-2070’s.On Monday we’re likely to have a coalition Liberal-NDP government. I can’t see the king maker NDP agreeing to buy the F-35. Does this mean the CF-18 and their ex-Australian cousins will soldier on into the mid-2020?
If the NDP wants to lose more seats in Quebec, they should do this....Guess where a lot of the Canadian F-35 industrial base is.On Monday we’re likely to have a coalition Liberal-NDP government. I can’t see the king maker NDP agreeing to buy the F-35. Does this mean the CF-18 and their ex-Australian cousins will soldier on into the mid-2020?