Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[W. K. Lis]

No interchange stations, 3 new station builds, tunneling already commenced, is this really a 7-10yr project. Am I just vastly underestimating construction times of a project like this?

The Sheppard & McCowan Station being designed to ultimately provide an interchange with an extension of the proposed Sheppard Subway (Line 4). It will feature a TTC bus terminal with passenger pick-up and drop-off facilities. From link. I guess we'll soon see a napkin rendering in the coming years.

 

[drum118]

The Sheppard & McCowan Station being designed to ultimately provide an interchange with an extension of the proposed Sheppard Subway (Line 4). It will feature a TTC bus terminal with passenger pick-up and drop-off facilities. From link. I guess we'll soon see a napkin rendering in the coming years.

As much as I hate to see subway lines on both route, this is setup to go north a some future date and have no issue with it. At least it will not be part of an loop system as some have call for for Sheppard extension nor the original plan.

Real hard push to have a Sheppard subway this far east for Sheppard and a great spot to become X going east as an non subway line.

Most likely it will be a Crosstown design station

 

[W. K. Lis]

Would like to see the tail-track become an extension of the Sheppard Line 4, not a transfer point. With a LRT going east along Sheppard Avenue East.

 

[sixrings]

As much as I hate to see subway lines on both route, this is setup to go north a some future date and have no issue with it. At least it will not be part of an loop system as some have call for for Sheppard extension nor the original plan.

Real hard push to have a Sheppard subway this far east for Sheppard and a great spot to become X going east as an non subway line.

Most likely it will be a Crosstown design station

This thing is going to get to woodside square and then Markham mall. Mississauga will have no issue taking a bus to the bloor line. We’re very accommodating that way.

 

[Deadpool X]

This thing is going to get to woodside square and then Markham mall. Mississauga will have no issue taking a bus to the bloor line. We’re very accommodating that way.

This project is not taking away anything from Mississauga.

 

[jmi22]

I'm aware of the nonsensical political reasons for burying the line, but has metrolinx given any official excuse for why this extension is wholly tunneled? It is running through some of the lowest density areas in the city with nothing notable existing on the roads it is going under. It a very suitable corridor for elevated and would provide immense savings.

 

[sixrings]

This project is not taking away anything from Mississauga.

Finite transit dollars means anytime anything is built it is taking away from somewhere else.

The Scarborough extension took away eglinton east at the very least.

 

[JBR]

I'm aware of the nonsensical political reasons for burying the line, but has metrolinx given any official excuse for why this extension is wholly tunneled? It is running through some of the lowest density areas in the city with nothing notable existing on the roads it is going under. It a very suitable corridor for elevated and would provide immense savings.

The only spots suitable for above ground sections without mass expropriations are as followed:
1. North of Lawrence over Massey Creek - what’s cost of building 2 portals and a bridge over Massey Creek.
2. Over the 401.

 

[Sunnyside]

Pardon my ignorance, but I wasn’t around for much of the time when the modern transit plans for Scarborough came around. How exactly are the current schemes materially benefitting Scarborough’s transit? For all the political hoo-ha, there is materially only a one-stop extension with the line 2 replacement of line 3, and the crosstown hardly adds any coverage. I suppose there’s more downstream capacity now, but everyone in Scarborough is still going to be taking a fairly long bus ride for the next 20 years to get to STC or Kennedy. The expanded stouffville line will help, but that’s been separate from to the need to “serve Scarborough”.

 

[Aplus23]

Pardon my ignorance, but I wasn’t around for much of the time when the modern transit plans for Scarborough came around. How exactly are the current schemes materially benefitting Scarborough’s transit? For all the political hoo-ha, there is materially only a one-stop extension with the line 2 replacement of line 3, and the crosstown hardly adds any coverage. I suppose there’s more downstream capacity now, but everyone in Scarborough is still going to be taking a fairly long bus ride for the next 20 years to get to STC or Kennedy. The expanded stouffville line will help, but that’s been separate from to the need to “serve Scarborough”.

That's my main gripe, I live in the Lawrence and Morningside area, it use to be like 32-40 trip to get to Kennedy during peak times. I don't know what it's like now cuz I drive but still, anyone east of McCowan is still in a subway desert basically

If they could bring Sheppard east to Markham or Morningside and then build the EELRT to connect with the Sheppard line then that would solve all issues.

 

[Sunnyside]

That's my main gripe, I live in the Lawrence and Morningside area, it use to be like 32-40 trip to get to Kennedy during peak times. I don't know what it's like now cuz I drive but still, anyone east of McCowan is still in a subway desert basically

If they could bring Sheppard east to Markham or Morningside and then build the EELRT to connect with the Sheppard line then that would solve all issues.

Great example. That’s the thing, all the actual expansions for Scarborough are in limbo and unfunded. Sheppard east, Eg East, Ellesmere BRT, etc. are all theoretically the “next wave” but that frankly means nothing. This current round of active expansion is simply preserving the rapid transit that already exists. I would have hoped that a BRT or two could’ve been built in the interim before we embark on the rail transit lines to at least offer something.

 

[sixrings]

That's my main gripe, I live in the Lawrence and Morningside area, it use to be like 32-40 trip to get to Kennedy during peak times. I don't know what it's like now cuz I drive but still, anyone east of McCowan is still in a subway desert basically

If they could bring Sheppard east to Markham or Morningside and then build the EELRT to connect with the Sheppard line then that would solve all issues.

lots of rexdale and Etobicoke are in subway deserts too.

 

[W. K. Lis]

lots of rexdale and Etobicoke are in subway deserts too.

Soon to get rapid transit in the form of light rail, Line 6.

 

[carlosdanger]

Pardon my ignorance, but I wasn’t around for much of the time when the modern transit plans for Scarborough came around. How exactly are the current schemes materially benefitting Scarborough’s transit? For all the political hoo-ha, there is materially only a one-stop extension with the line 2 replacement of line 3, and the crosstown hardly adds any coverage. I suppose there’s more downstream capacity now, but everyone in Scarborough is still going to be taking a fairly long bus ride for the next 20 years to get to STC or Kennedy. The expanded stouffville line will help, but that’s been separate from to the need to “serve Scarborough”.

No reason to feel bad or apologize for ignorance, unlike bad faith.

A lot of what you have written seems to align quite closely to narratives/arguments of those opposed to the current plans.

The Extension will have three stops. Lots of people still believe it is only one, but this was decided in 2017 or so. It is possible for the extension to take 20 years, but even when the project gets its eventual delay, I think it will be closer to ten than twenty years.

I agree with you more with the Crosstown. I think it will be slow and unreliable compared with grade-separated rail.

As an aside, I've always bristled at the framing of projects that some people don't like as political pandering, and projects people like as much-needed and reasonable. The former usually comes with calls to hugely reduce spending and move money to a different part of the city, not to improve the implementation of the plan in question.

 

[dullturtle06]

Pardon my ignorance, but I wasn’t around for much of the time when the modern transit plans for Scarborough came around. How exactly are the current schemes materially benefitting Scarborough’s transit? For all the political hoo-ha, there is materially only a one-stop extension with the line 2 replacement of line 3, and the crosstown hardly adds any coverage. I suppose there’s more downstream capacity now, but everyone in Scarborough is still going to be taking a fairly long bus ride for the next 20 years to get to STC or Kennedy. The expanded stouffville line will help, but that’s been separate from to the need to “serve Scarborough”.

So from what I remember metrolinx took the plan over from the city which already planned a single bore. They just added 2 stops, but since most of the engineering was done they did not want to restart to elevate over the creek. They also wanted to minimize delay as the srt was going to be put out of service and minimize the amount of time the srt was offline before the subway finished construction.