Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[jmi22]

The only spots suitable for above ground sections without mass expropriations are as followed:
1. North of Lawrence over Massey Creek - what’s cost of building 2 portals and a bridge over Massey Creek.
2. Over the 401.

Those are the only two corridors possible if you are referring to a open trench/at grade alignment. An elevated route along Danforth and Morningside would be very doable.

 

[JBR]

Those are the only two corridors possible if you are referring to a open trench/at grade alignment. An elevated route along Danforth and Morningside would be very doable.

Morningside??
Along Danforth they’d have to expropriate how many homes to make this possible?

 

[jmi22]

Morningside??
Along Danforth they’d have to expropriate how many homes to make this possible?

My mistake, I meant to say McCowan, not Morningside, as that is the road under which the majority of the extension will be routed.

To soothe your concerns of expropriation, I implore you to understand the word elevated. Unless there are homes currently located in the middle of the road, no expropriation would be required. Elevated trackage refers to an elevated right of way above the center of an existing roadway. To make this as clear as possible I have attached a diagram depicting the highly successful Vancouver Skytrains primary method of elevating their tracks. I will not be explaining this term I thought was highly common once again.

Anyways, along the entirety of the route, the road the elevated track would be running along is always at least 4 lanes wide, with major setbacks. Upon the transfer to McCowan, the route becomes 5/6 lanes wide, with strip malls on either side. No demolition of existing buildings would be needed and a reduction of lanes around a new expensive subway extension is actually a positive in terms of promoting transit oriented development in the area.

 

[Rainforest]

My mistake, I meant to say McCowan, not Morningside, as that is the road under which the majority of the extension will be routed.

To soothe your concerns of expropriation, I implore you to understand the word elevated. Unless there are homes currently located in the middle of the road, no expropriation would be required. Elevated trackage refers to an elevated right of way above the center of an existing roadway. To make this as clear as possible I have attached a diagram depicting the highly successful Vancouver Skytrains primary method of elevating their tracks. I will not be explaining this term I thought was highly common once again.

Anyways, along the entirety of the route, the road the elevated track would be running along is always at least 4 lanes wide, with major setbacks. Upon the transfer to McCowan, the route becomes 5/6 lanes wide, with strip malls on either side. No demolition of existing buildings would be needed and a reduction of lanes around a new expensive subway extension is actually a positive in terms of promoting transit oriented development in the area.
View attachment 457400

Won't say "not possible", but there would be a major pushback from the residents. Noise, plus the visual impact.

Vancouver Skytrain trains and their guideways are thinner than the massive TTC subway trains. Not sure about the noise comparison.

 

[jmi22]

Won't say "not possible", but there would be a major pushback from the residents. Noise, plus the visual impact.

Vancouver Skytrain trains and their guideways are thinner than the massive TTC subway trains. Not sure about the noise comparison.

Yes unfortunately NIMBY's are rampant, and I imagine it would be especially bad in suburban Scarborough. However the province and city have a long history of ignoring the populations demands so hopefully this would be one of those time, for the sake of logical and affordable transit.

I was unaware the TTC trains are wider, but I still believe elevated is the best option for this extremely low density corridor. It's good that the Ontario Line will feature various elevated sections, so maybe Toronto residents and politicians will see that elevated trackage is not the hell on earth the they have insisted it to be for decades now.

 

[lenaitch]

Where is McCowan six lanes wide?

(South of Brimorton, looking south)

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.ca

 

[jmi22]

Where is McCowan six lanes wide?

(South of Brimorton, looking south)

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.ca

At the intersection of McCowan and Lawrence, McCowan is six lanes wide, not including a turn lane and the wide median that separates it from the rest of the right of way.

 

[W. K. Lis]

...
I was unaware the TTC trains are wider, but I still believe elevated is the best option for this extremely low density corridor. It's good that the Ontario Line will feature various elevated sections, so maybe Toronto residents and politicians will see that elevated trackage is not the hell on earth the they have insisted it to be for decades now.

Toronto streetcars have a tighter radii than the suburban light rail vehicles, because the streetcars are narrower than the LRVs. The suburban light rail vehicles have a tighter radii than the subway train cars, because the LRVs are narrower than the subway train cars.

Also why the suburban light rail vehicles cannot be used on the downtown streetcar network, they can't handle the curves (or hills).

 

[dullturtle06]

Yes unfortunately NIMBY's are rampant, and I imagine it would be especially bad in suburban Scarborough. However the province and city have a long history of ignoring the populations demands so hopefully this would be one of those time, for the sake of logical and affordable transit.

I was unaware the TTC trains are wider, but I still believe elevated is the best option for this extremely low density corridor. It's good that the Ontario Line will feature various elevated sections, so maybe Toronto residents and politicians will see that elevated trackage is not the hell on earth the they have insisted it to be for decades now.

Yes I agree, but I think you yonge extension is even better for elevation as that road is so wide 6 lanes all the way up with huge setbacks. But they are deep bore tunneling it

And it would be so much more cost effective.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Yes I agree, but I think you yonge extension is even better for elevation as that road is so wide 6 lanes all the way up with huge setbacks. But they are deep bore tunneling it

And it would be so much more cost effective.

Instead of 6 lanes, should be narrowed to 4 traffic lanes, one dual-direction cycling lane (could be used by emergency vehicles), and wider sidewalks with a grass verge for snow windrows and trees.

 

[dullturtle06]

Instead of 6 lanes, should be narrowed to 4 traffic lanes, one dual-direction cycling lane (could be used by emergency vehicles), and wider sidewalks with a grass verge for snow windrows and trees.

Yes and an elevated subway. One can only dream now unfortunately . Instead we are playing 5 billion to bury a subway in the suburbs under a stroad.

 

[T3G]

Toronto streetcars have a tighter radii than the suburban light rail vehicles, because the streetcars are narrower than the LRVs. The suburban light rail vehicles have a tighter radii than the subway train cars, because the LRVs are narrower than the subway train cars.

Also why the suburban light rail vehicles cannot be used on the downtown streetcar network, they can't handle the curves (or hills).

The discussion was about subway trains, not LRVs.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The McCowan & Sheppard Station is close to the CP line to the north of it. From link.

If they ever build a GO Midtown corridor train line, instead of a "Markham" GO Station, they should go with a "Sheppard & McCowan" GO Station. The train tracks are just one block north of Nugget Avenue, 2 blocks north of Sheppard Avenue East. Since the Line 2 station ends just before Nugget Avenue, a GO train station can be set up between Nugget and the train tracks. See link.

From link.

 

[JSF-1]

The McCowan & Sheppard Station is close to the CP line to the north of it. From link.

View attachment 457797

If they ever build a GO Midtown corridor train line, instead of a "Markham" GO Station, they should go with a "Sheppard & McCowan" GO Station. The train tracks are just one block north of Nugget Avenue, 2 blocks north of Sheppard Avenue East. Since the Line 2 station ends just before Nugget Avenue, a GO train station can be set up between Nugget and the train tracks. See link.

From link.

It doesn't need to be an either/or. A stop at both McCowan and Sheppard as well as Markham and Finch would be just fine since they would be around 2km apart which is fine for GO Service, especially as we move towards RER's more "surface subway" style operations.

 

[JBR]

My mistake, I meant to say McCowan, not Morningside, as that is the road under which the majority of the extension will be routed.

To soothe your concerns of expropriation, I implore you to understand the word elevated. Unless there are homes currently located in the middle of the road, no expropriation would be required. Elevated trackage refers to an elevated right of way above the center of an existing roadway. To make this as clear as possible I have attached a diagram depicting the highly successful Vancouver Skytrains primary method of elevating their tracks. I will not be explaining this term I thought was highly common once again.

Anyways, along the entirety of the route, the road the elevated track would be running along is always at least 4 lanes wide, with major setbacks. Upon the transfer to McCowan, the route becomes 5/6 lanes wide, with strip malls on either side. No demolition of existing buildings would be needed and a reduction of lanes around a new expensive subway extension is actually a positive in terms of promoting transit oriented development in the area.
View attachment 457400

Condescending much with your explanation?