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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

Jaye101 said:
A Sheppard Extension would connect Line 2 at McCowan, GO at Agincourt, Ontario Line at Don Mills, Line 1 Yonge, and potentially Line 1 University in a westward extension...Connecting Scarborough with York University and Yorkdale with a quick transfer.

This line would not be underused. I actually see enormous potential for the corridor. To be honest when David Miller was mayor I supported the LRT but now seeing how fast the city is growing, and how slow the progress is on these things I think pursuing LRT east of McCowan is irresponsible on Sheppard. But that's just my opinion.
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LRT with transfer is not quite good enough East of Kennedy.
LRT is a bit overkill West of Kennedy.
Thus, they tried to shoe-horn in an LRT that did not quite work anywhere, or they could provide a continuation of Sheppard subway (convert to Ontario Line style trains or not) and use buses in the extremities.
 
Rainforest said:
SSE will pass under Lawrence & McCowan en route to STC, anyway. Then, why not build a station there? People riding the Lawrence bus from east of McCowan, will reach the SSE Lawrence station about 25 min sooner than they will reach the DRL Lawrence station.

Sure, if DRL / OL gets extended north of Eglinton, it will get its own Lawrence station.
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I couldn't imagine any 54 rider east of Kennedy remotely considering taking a longer trip to the RL even as the current infrastructure sits rights now. Riders here would drop down to Kennedy and Eglinton as they do now. There is no savings there whatsoever. The relief line helps Scarboroughs long distance commuters in terms of relief, really nothing else in terms of time savings or economic benefits.

The new Central Lawrence east stop will be greatly beneficial to better serve the many higher populated, and lower income areas along Lawrence east of McCowan to Morningside crossing. Very underrated connection for the people in these areas who for decades have had to travel much further to transfer to the unreliable RT or take a longer route to Kennedy station.
 
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kali said:
@OneCity I don't think it makes sense to spend so much money just to avoid a Sheppard LRT>subway transfer. Most people using Sheppard in that area will probably be transferring anyway, but south onto the RL/OL. Anyway, all of this is irrelevant because Sheppard will just have to deal with having a stub line for the next few decades because we didn't do it properly the first time (should have been a mixed tunneled/elevated/at grade LRT) and there's not enough money to fix it.
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I don't see Sheppard as a top priority right now, but eventually, it can be fixed.

Either a high-floor LRT that can use the existing tunnel with minimal changes, and then be extended further east at-grade. Or, OL type subway rolling stock, which again can use the existing tunnel, and can be extended east at a lower cost than TTC subway.
 
Jaye101 said:
A Sheppard Extension would connect Line 2 at McCowan, GO at Agincourt, Ontario Line at Don Mills, Line 1 Yonge, and potentially Line 1 University in a westward extension...Connecting Scarborough with York University and Yorkdale with a quick transfer.

This line would not be underused. I actually see enormous potential for the corridor. To be honest when David Miller was mayor I supported the LRT but now seeing how fast the city is growing, and how slow the progress is on these things I think pursuing LRT east of McCowan is irresponsible on Sheppard. But that's just my opinion.
Click to expand...

I'd say that corridor will be well under subway level ridership for a long, long time. An Eglinton LRT-like solution would be more than adequate.
 
Rainforest said:
I don't see Sheppard as a top priority right now, but eventually, it can be fixed.

Either a high-floor LRT that can use the existing tunnel with minimal changes, and then be extended further east at-grade. Or, OL type subway rolling stock, which again can use the existing tunnel, and can be extended east at a lower cost than TTC subway.
Click to expand...

Line 4 (Sheppard) has blocked off station boxes. While the station box are built for 6-car subway trains, they have knock-down walls for 4-car subway trains. The platforms themselves are hollow, so can also be knocked-down. In Brussels, they've switched to low-floor trams, so they lowered the platforms to accommodate the newer trams.

 
syn said:
I'd say that corridor will be well under subway level ridership for a long, long time. An Eglinton LRT-like solution would be more than adequate.
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It feels weird arguing that Sheppard should in fact be extended east as a subway when I spent years arguing the opposite.

I don't see how connecting five heavy rail lines to one another in a transit starved, fast growing environment such as the GTA would result in "well under subway level ridership for a long long time." I just can't picture it. When I grew up in Scarborough (1999-2004) it was common to see 30+ people waiting for buses that were already packed and driving by stops as far east as Morningside and Sheppard on a daily basis.

Now, I'm not implying that much of this local Scarborough demand couldn't be satisfied with LRT. But when you factor in regional transportation connectivity, how local behaviours would change as a result, combined with the development potential of the corridor. For me, it's a no brainer.

Rainforest said:
I don't see Sheppard as a top priority right now, but eventually, it can be fixed.

Either a high-floor LRT that can use the existing tunnel with minimal changes, and then be extended further east at-grade. Or, OL type subway rolling stock, which again can use the existing tunnel, and can be extended east at a lower cost than TTC subway.
Click to expand...

I don't think Sheppard is a top priority either, I also agree that perhaps the rolling stock can be changed to lighter cars allowing for more cost effective elevated solutions. I do not think the line should be converted to use low floor cars.
 
I'm always shocked at the lack of development along the Danforth and Bloor West, while certain areas far from RT like Humber Bay Shores are booming. The nature of transit in this city is very much from feeder routes especially in the suburbs. Are there any statistics detailing how many transit trips begin with walk ins vs bus feeders for curiosity's sake?

I do agree on the premise that much of the areas around RT stations must be rezoned, including large swaths of the city near existing lines.
 
Jaye101 said:
It feels weird arguing that Sheppard should in fact be extended east as a subway when I spent years arguing the opposite.

I don't see how connecting five heavy rail lines to one another in a transit starved, fast growing environment such as the GTA would result in "well under subway level ridership for a long long time." I just can't picture it. When I grew up in Scarborough (1999-2004) it was common to see 30+ people waiting for buses that were already packed and driving by stops as far east as Morningside and Sheppard on a daily basis.

Now, I'm not implying that much of this local Scarborough demand couldn't be satisfied with LRT. But when you factor in regional transportation connectivity, how local behaviours would change as a result, combined with the development potential of the corridor. For me, it's a no brainer.
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Because building a subways is no guarantee of growth in a particular area. We have ample evidence of this - the Sheppard Line, Kipling, Kennedy, Scarborough RT, etc.

A lot of people waiting for a bus doesn't mean you'll have high subway ridership numbers - there could be a few solutions to that problem. Subway corridors require high residential and employment density. The ridership estimates when this line were previous considered were very low, and I still don't think they'd be anywhere near what a subway would warrant.

I understand where you're coming from. I've changed my mind too - as far as a Scarborough subway is concerned, I feel this is by far a better choice than the SSE (with some other considerations of course).

If the SSE is going forward, there is no sense in putting a subway line here. Between the new extension and the Eglinton LRT, there simply won't be enough riders to go around.

In an ideal world, I'd say build subways everywhere. SSE, Sheppard...have at it. We just have too many other important needs right now.

I'd love to see us return to a sensible transit building philosphy, based on need rather than politically-driven wants.
 
W. K. Lis said:
Line 4 (Sheppard) has blocked off station boxes. While the station box are built for 6-car subway trains, they have knock-down walls for 4-car subway trains. The platforms themselves are hollow, so can also be knocked-down. In Brussels, they've switched to low-floor trams, so they lowered the platforms to accommodate the newer trams.

Click to expand...

Conversion to low floor is doable, but would cost too much. Not just the platforms lowered, but stairs and elevators rebuilt as well, electric feeds in the tunnels changed etc.

If there is a desire to avoid the transfer at Don Mills, but not to pay for extending the full-fledged subway, then we should look for a technology that can reuse the existing tunnel with minimal changes.
 
urbanyimby said:
blog.metrolinx.com

Metrolinx Press Room

Find the latest Metrolinx news, project updates and more.
blog.metrolinx.com

EPR Addendum Issued today
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As soon as I saw the word "study" in the introduction I closed the tab...This is another one of those election football laterals that promises action but results in yet ANOTHER study. They (ford or whichever the next govt will be) need to build it or scrap the project instead of hiding behind fucking study after study:mad:
 
cplchanb said:
As soon as I saw the word "study" in the introduction I closed the tab...This is another one of those election football laterals that promises action but results in yet ANOTHER study. They (ford or whichever the next govt will be) need to build it or scrap the project instead of hiding behind fucking study after study:mad:
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If you read the article, it says the RFP goes out by the end of summer, so it's not just another study.
 
'...The addendum also confirms Metrolinx’s decision to speed up construction by using two tunnel boring machines – one being launched at Eglinton Avenue East and Midland Avenue and the other at the terminal station location on Sheppard. “The two will be working together at the same time to construct the line,” Hodge said.'
 
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