Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[Rainforest]

56% in Scarborough oppose $3.5 billion subway extension and the $1 billion tax increase

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releas...er-subway-for-scarborough-poll-513657021.html

If someone disagrees with this, produce reference to your claims.

I googled heavily and found numerous references reporting the same outcome, but none seems to show the original poll question.

If someone can find that original question and post the exact formulation here, I will have no problem giving the poll outcome some credibility.

 

[steveintoronto]

See attached for complete file.

 

[steveintoronto]

If someone can find that original question and post the exact formulation here, I will have no problem giving the poll outcome some credibility.

So in the absence of your being able to refute the findings, and unable to reference your claims, you expect everyone else to believe you, and not the multitude of media reports *from all sources* let alone Leger's own?

And here's for @OneCity:

Torontonians want LRT over subway for Scarborough: Poll
Maryam Shah
https://torontosun.com/2014/02/03/t...poll/wcm/ef752345-43c6-4059-a3c7-80f28756c112

Blame TorStar!

 

[Rainforest]

So in the absence of your being able to refute the findings, and unable to reference your claims, you expect everyone else to believe you, and not the multitude of media reports *from all sources* let alone Leger's own?

And here's for @OneCity:

Torontonians want LRT over subway for Scarborough: Poll
Maryam Shah
https://torontosun.com/2014/02/03/t...poll/wcm/ef752345-43c6-4059-a3c7-80f28756c112

Blame TorStar!

I remember finding the exact poll question back then in 2014, and it was formulated the way I said. Can't google it now.

I don't care if anyone believes me or not. I believe what I read back then. If anyone wants to convince me otherwise, find that poll question formulation and post it here.

"Multiple media reports" all refer to the same original poll, thus their multitude doesn't produce any extra credibility.

 

[sixrings]

You do realize that although Ford vocalized Subways Subways Subways his whole mantra is roads roads roads. Not just his mantra but his voters mantra. His brother became mayor in part because he promised to cut $65 vehicle registration fee. And you are suggesting the provincial PCs who live in more rural areas and drive more will be ok with a toll on highways? I want transit to but be realistic in your expectations of how money will be raised and how much.

 

[Rainforest]

Transit funding isn't easy to come by, but this particular line is funded or almost funded. With the provincial government on-board, and their relatively large revenue base, they certainly can fund any cost overruns and / or inline stations at Lawrence East and Brimley, and the amounts involved wouldn't have much impact on other transit projects.

Going to Sheppard is another matter; even though it would be very useful for connectivity, it would cost quite a bit in extra funding. I suspect that the Ford's government will not fund it right away, and will vaguely promise to "close the loop" and extend all the way to Don Mills some day. Meaning, maybe yes or maybe no, but certainly not during this term or the next term.

 

[nfitz]

Scarborough Town Centre is on Danforth Road?

You kind of walked into that one.

 

[44 North]

I use "Transfer LRT" to separate it from the LRT proposal that would have combined the SRT with Eglinton. There is also my idea of connecting STC to downtown via the Gatineau hydro corridor and the Don Valley.

The Metrolinx report from June 2012 into the combined SRT/ECLRT showed about 12,500 passengers taking the line. If this study had extended to Malvern, the number would no doubt be above 15k. Eliminating the transfer is not just to appease the lazy, it actually allows with actual number of people to use transit, instead of driving. With the "Transfer LRT", roughly half these people don't take transit and drive instead - is this our goals with transit? Eliminating transfers for a few hundred or a thousand riders is not warranted, but for such large numbers, it definitely makes sense.

View attachment 151131

I don't want to comment on your own proposal because it isn't official, has problems, and this isn't the thread for it. The official Eglinton-Scarboro Subway MOU had merit but think it's a bit too late for it. Going forward I think one option that could salvage Line 3 to huge political benefit is Schabas' (unofficial but somewhat professional 'fantasy') Scarb Wye. Keeps Line 3 (big bonus), extends Line 3 as planned for decades (bonus), and extends Sheppard to SC (wins hearts). This integrated T-shaped line wouldn't be full-scale subway, but Sheppard isn't operated that way to begin with having a 4-car setup, so the difference would be negligible to riders. Trains would just become slightly narrower. All still high-floor subway/metro vehicles, just not 6-car. Cancel Crosstown east of Don Mills to help fund it.

Having said that, I believe there is potential merit with salvaging Line 3 and having it become a either a trunk or branch of RL. We have this important corridor (Line 3) and the City and Prov are willing to just toss it in the garbage...no thinking outside the box. This isn't the fantasy thread but whatever lol:

 

[steveintoronto]

"Multiple media reports" all refer to the same original poll, thus their multitude doesn't produce any extra credibility.

Neither does:

I believe what I read back then

For some odd reason, I believe the professionals who've published many studies that reference the poll. Leger, btw, publish the methodology for their 2011 poll which didn't show as much support for the LRT as the 2014 one. Both polls were part of the same running series.

http://leger360.com/admin/upload/publi_pdf/future_of_transit_in_toronto_report_ii_eng.pdf

 

[rbt]

People miss the context when they say that the modern transit systems are built on transfers and thus it's not a big deal Scarberians have to transfer at Kennedy.

For most of Torontonians, a transit trip looks like this: take a local bus or streetcar, ride to the closest subway station, ride the subway, transfer to another subway line if necessary, transfer to another local bus or streetcar.

Travelling 30+ km using local services (rather than some type of express service) is unusual.

What they're asking for is subway. What they really want is much more frequent GO service and integration (transfers from bus services; yes, they want transfers).

 

[TheTigerMaster]

You do realize that although Ford vocalized Subways Subways Subways his whole mantra is roads roads roads. Not just his mantra but his voters mantra. His brother became mayor in part because he promised to cut $65 vehicle registration fee. And you are suggesting the provincial PCs who live in more rural areas and drive more will be ok with a toll on highways? I want transit to but be realistic in your expectations of how money will be raised and how much.

And let’s keep in mind that the PC “platform” initially had no mention of transit, and their throne speech had only one non-committal reference to transit. I’m not expecting much, if any, new transit from this government.

 

[Streety McCarface]

And let’s keep in mind that the PC “platform” initially had no mention of transit, and their throne speech had only one non-committal reference to transit. I’m not expecting much, if any, new transit from this government.

If anything, they're going to cancel much needed projects everywhere.

 

[steveintoronto]

If anything, they're going to cancel much needed projects everywhere.

And the opportunity for private investment initiative climbs, even greater than under the Libs (DBFOM)

Design-Build-Finance-Operate-Maintain (DBFOM) | Practical Law
P3 Components - DBFOM - The Canadian Council for Public-Private ...
www.pppcouncil.ca/web/P3_Knowledge_Centre/About_P3s/P3_Components.aspx
The Design-Build-Finance-Operate-Maintain (DBFOM) model integrates the work of five or more companies into one contract. These companies.

P3 Parts - DBFOM - The Canadian Council for Public-Private ...
www.pppcouncil.ca/web/P3_Knowledge_Centre/About_P3s/P3_Parts.aspx
The Design-Build-Finance-Operate-Maintain (DBFOM) model integrates the work of five or more companies into one contract. These companies form a special ...
[PDF]procurement and delivery option - ION Rapid Transit - Region of ...
https://rapidtransit.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/.../lrt_procurement__delivery_option.pdf
a) approve Design-Build-Finance-Operate-Maintain (DBFOM) as the procurement and delivery option for Stage 1 light rail transit, with a 30-year project term for ...

etc, etc, etc...

Good luck getting private investors doing the Subway to Samarkand...

A reminder:

Transit funding isn't easy to come by, but this particular line is funded or almost funded.

Really?

 

[syn]

That has nothing to do with it. Danforth Avenue and Danforth Road are along the same corridor, one is just named differently because it changes direction due to coping with the geology of Toronto. The subway somewhat mirrors it along an old freight corridor because that what was available at the time when expanding the subway. What makes the difference if it's on Danforth Avenue or Danforth Road when it's following a distinguished corridor in the city?

But they aren't on the same corridor, are they? The Bloor-Danforth line isn't on Danforth past Victoria Park Station.

Kennedy Station is 1.5km west of Danforth Road. The Kennedy & Danforth Road intersection is about 4.5km south of STC.

It's like arguing Spadina & Bloor is on the same 'corridor' as Yonge & Eglinton, necessitating a transfer free connection.

Ridership, density, location...there is absolutely nothing that makes a transfer free connection from STC a necessity. It's strictly in the 'we want it' category, which is no way to plan sensible transit.

 

[syn]

View attachment 151245

See attached for complete file.

Thanks for sharing. Is this the memo that tells everyone the price is going down?