Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[OneCity]

Then feel perfectly free to post reference. All you post is opinion. And it's far more than just "The Star". It's the Globe and most any other publication outside of the Post Partums.

And it's a litany of transit professionals.

You can argue with yourself for all I care. The future of transit in this Province is, with very few exceptions, private initiatives. Best you start haranguing investors with your spiel. Good luck.

Meantime, those Commie Lefty Socialist Good-for-Nothings, the Globe state:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opi...subway-a-boondoggle-on-rails/article34179150/

I blame the Star myself. It's all their fault...

You need me to post the results of all municipal riding election, bi-elections, Provincial ridings, and Mayoral/ Premier races? It's clear and the winners are running on the subway as main frontline items in the platform of their campaigns even in the far corners. Heck even the NDP here are very pro subway. Go check with Campaign research, the one providing info to our Mayoral winners. Might be a better pollster to start to follow for accuracy here.

The Star joined Metroland as little more than Transit City promotional adds and defenders long ago. And unfortunately that plan has gone uncritized by even the moderate Left media throughout this mess and all other plans purposely ignored.

The voters and the winning pollsters tell the real story here and it's not even that close. Voters matters in a Democratic society, moderate to strong bias media and polls not so much.

 

[sixrings]

If one person promised you a Ferrari and the other promised you a Lexus while currently you drive a ford then of course you are going to chose the Ferrari. That doesn't mean the person can actually afford to fulfill their promise to you. So essentially once the Ferrari was offered by one party everyone had to offer it even if the others thought it was a stupid idea or hoped to bait and switch you with a more sensible approach once you chose them.

 

[Streety McCarface]

Well OneCity and Streety seem to talk to ALL their Scarborough friends who ALL seem to be in favour.

I never claimed that I speak for all of scarborough, only implied that I was speaking for those who use the RT on a daily basis. I, am entitled to my opinion and can claim an unnecessary transfer is ridiculous. Believe it or not, I actually don't like the current subway plan. The tunnels are too deep, the bus terminals are not well integrated, and there is an absence of a Lawrence East stop. I am also not anti-LRT, I just don't believe that the current LRT plan is the most fiscally responsible plan (and that says a lot when the subway is as fiscally irresponsible as it is now) -- that would be SRT fleet replacement (with new Mark III trains, and I actually like this plan). I support the subway the most because it solves a lot of problems that the LRT does not. I do not believe that the Scarborough subway should have been funded before the Relief line, but that's council for you. I don't support keeping the transfer at Kennedy station because the majority of the station's passengers (~30-37K of 70K are getting off at the STC and Lawrence East alone) utilize the SRT corridor, the others being bus passengers that transfer to the subway or travel along eglinton (which is getting an LRT). Assuming ridership growth occurs with the subway of about 10K passengers, initial ridership for a 2 stop subway would be ~50K PPD. This is greater than the ridership of the Eglinton East bus over half the distance (And Eglinton is getting an LRT-subway). The difference between this transfer and the Crosstown transfer is that every single rider is catching the BD subway towards downtown. At Eglinton, while a significant portion of passengers may go downtown, another significant portion will go further west at eglinton or north on Yonge. You don't have this at Kennedy. It's fair to say removing a transfer at Kennedy is worth a bit of extra price (not 2 billion extra, but there are other benefits to the subway I've already discussed. The only benefit to LRT I've heard is that it's cheaper, and even then, the SRT replacement is less expensive. Who's being fiscally irresponsible now?)

Scarborough -- and all the city -- deserve new transit. Downtown NEEDS RL, better streetcar priority, and RLW, Jane & Finch deserve the FWLRT, Etobicoke deserves a Grade Separated Eglinton West LRT and Jane LRT, Scarborough can have their subway and Eglinton East LRT, North York can have Relief Line North and the sheppard west subway extension if they absolutely need another subway line. Everyone can have some of RER. It'll be expensive, but at least it will be even.

 

[sixrings]

you dont like the subway plan because its not expensive enough and doesnt have enough stops.

 

[Streety McCarface]

you dont like the subway plan because its not expensive enough and doesnt have enough stops.

That's not at all what I said. I said the line was too deep (aka too expensive) and doesn't have enough stops --- even one more would suffice. I wouldn't mind if the line was built as an elevated line along McCowan (and I know how infeasible that is) or if they did something insane like turn McCowan road into a subway corridor with grade separated crossings (wouldn't that be something, probably still less expensive to settle lawsuits and pay for 6 grade separations than the current subway plan)

Also, last I checked, the subway follows danforth road, which is the name of the current subway line. If that's not "within corridor" then I don't know what is.

 

[nfitz]

The Star joined Metroland as little more than Transit City promotional adds and defenders long ago. And unfortunately that plan has gone uncritized by even the moderate Left media throughout this mess and all other plans purposely ignored.

This just isn't true.

Perhaps you should go read the threads from this period, long before you were a member here. Given how anti-Miller The Star became during Miller's second-term (which was when the Transit City LRT plan surfaced), it's hard to reconcile that with being pro-Transit City.

Given how clearly biased and wrong one is about a newspaper that has spent huge amounts of energy going after both left-wing and centrist politicians in addition to the right; then it appears more likely the Star goes after bad government and bad ideas than simply right-wing.

I don't really see any need to be anti-Star then (unless perhaps one is pushing bad ideas LOL!)

 

[sixrings]

That's not at all what I said. I said the line was too deep (aka too expensive) and doesn't have enough stops --- even one more would suffice. I wouldn't mind if the line was built as an elevated line along McCowan (and I know how infeasible that is) or if they did something insane like turn McCowan road into a subway corridor with grade separated crossings (wouldn't that be something, probably still less expensive to settle lawsuits and pay for 6 grade separations than the current subway plan)

Also, last I checked, the subway follows danforth road, which is the name of the current subway line. If that's not "within corridor" then I don't know what is.

thats what this all boils down to... a finite amount of money and scarborough demanding a whole bunch of it while pretending that there will be money left over for other areas... but screw other areas... they are already privileged...

 

[syn]

Also, last I checked, the subway follows danforth road, which is the name of the current subway line. If that's not "within corridor" then I don't know what is.

Scarborough Town Centre is on Danforth Road?

I had no idea!

 

[Streety McCarface]

thats what this all boils down to... a finite amount of money and scarborough demanding a whole bunch of it while pretending that there will be money left over for other areas... but screw other areas... they are already privileged...

So...an area with 23% of the population of toronto gets 16% of the transit funding (not including RER)? Seems legit. I don't have a problem with that.

Scarborough Town Centre is on Danforth Road?

I had no idea!

It's on McCowan, Danforth changes to McCowan at Lawrence. The point is that it's hypocritical to claim that the subway does not follow the corridor of the "Bloor-Danforth Line" when more than half the subway travels along danforth road.

 

[syn]

It's on McCowan, Danforth changes to McCowan at Lawrence. The point is that it's hypocritical to claim that the subway does not follow the corridor of the "Bloor-Danforth Line" when more than half the subway travels along danforth road.

None of the subway travels along Danforth Road.

 

[Rainforest]

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/02/03/scarborough_residents_prefer_lrt_to_subway_poll.html

The poll question was designed to produce the outcome favorable for LRT. Basically, they asked, "do you prefer the subway [no details given] or the light rail plan that [list of advantages of the LRT plan]".

They didn't lie outright, but by presenting advantages of one option and omitting advantages of the other, they certainly skewed the outcome. The respondents have to answer with little preparation, most of them aren't versed in the details of either plan, and many aren't even transit riders. When asked that question, naturally they answered based on the facts given in the question itself, rather than all facts.

 

[Rainforest]

A better indicator is the outcome of the recent provincial elections. How many candidates run and won while promoting the LRT plan instead of subway? Zero; because no candidate with a shot at winning even tried to go with such a plan.

Had the LRT proposal been truly popular, surely someone would run on it and win. Or, at least would come close second.

 

[Streety McCarface]

None of the subway travels along Danforth Road.

Shows how much you know about Toronto city streets...

Maybe try looking at a map before you refute my comment.

 

[sixrings]

You could reword the polls a million diferent ways with lrt still gaining support and subway advocates would still be claiming it's a bias report.

 

[Rainforest]

Since the above mentioned poll was clearly biased, and no other one conducted, we don't need to speculate what would happen if a properly worded poll indicated support for LRT.