nfitz
Superstar
So many documents, so many versions.
Yes, that makes it easier! Would be neat to have hands on that model, and see the output for all the nodes and links.
I wonder if one could FOIA the input files and source code.
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Yes, that makes it easier! Would be neat to have hands on that model, and see the output for all the nodes and links.
I wonder if one could FOIA the input files and source code.
syn
Senior Member
The numbers are there...but where are they getting the numbers from?
TTC's own subway data from 2015 has over 52,000 riders using Kipling Station. I guess that's not just boardings, but riders coming from the opposite direction too?
Are Kipling's ridership numbers expected to drop in 14 years?
This also ignores that the numbers are quite comparable despite the fact that STC will be 6km from the nearest stop, while Kipling has another major stop just 1km away (and 5 within 6km).
My original point seems to stand.
TTC's own subway data from 2015 has over 52,000 riders using Kipling Station. I guess that's not just boardings, but riders coming from the opposite direction too?
Are Kipling's ridership numbers expected to drop in 14 years?
This also ignores that the numbers are quite comparable despite the fact that STC will be 6km from the nearest stop, while Kipling has another major stop just 1km away (and 5 within 6km).
My original point seems to stand.
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Sakraycore
Active Member
If you've ever taken the SRT you'd know that most people get on/off at Kennedy and STC, I'm talking like 80% of the riders at least. The other stops are vastly underused compared to Kennedy and STC. I'm not opposed to adding back the Lawrence station though, funds permitting.
rbt
Senior Member
And the bulk of Bloor line passengers get off at St George and Yonge stations. It's neat how like 200,000 people seem to work at Bloor & Bay. Or, perhaps they're transferring elsewhere and that's the only connection point that's offered; it's artificially popular by network design.
Is STC special because STC is actually special, or is it special because it's the only transfer point the TTC provides to get where they really want to go?
We can make Bessarion one of the top used stations on the network simply by running all buses that currently stop at Don Mills to Bessarion instead (+ Finch East and Steeles East ). Despite the now impressive 70,000 trips per day at Bessarion, does it help riders?
When 70% of riders make a connection, looking at total station ridership is silly. Where are the actual start and destination points. What is the ideal network to serve those trips. Finally, what is the cheapest way to go from what we have to something approximating that ideal network? With $7B being earmarked for Scarborough transit (Smarttrack + SSE + LRT) they really missed the boat on solving that areas transportation problems.
It'll be nearly as difficult to get around after those 3 projects are done as it was before them. Good for first time home buyers though; if transportation was good then housing prices might go up significantly.
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Sakraycore
Active Member
rbt
Senior Member
Sure, but why take a cautious step when a running jump was an option.
SSE certainly won't hurt anything but I sure as heck wouldn't want to be commuting from North East Scarborough in 2030.
Sakraycore
Active Member
Rainforest
Senior Member
That 61,600 count only includes the trips that involve a subway ride. Bus-to-bus transfers and walk-in to bus are not included. I doubt that those extra trips can account for 8,400 per day, to reach the total of 70,000. But they might account for 3,000 to 5,000 per day (just guessing).
Of course, non-subway trips are irrelevant if we are talking about the subway ridership only. However, non-subway trips become relevant if we want to compare the SSE station projections to the TTC stats for the existing stations. The latter almost certainly include all trips via the given station, not just subway trips.
Rainforest
Senior Member
Far from impossible:
That's a pretty wide curve if utilizing Corporate Dr as right-of-way to Bellamy.
OK, not impossible, but would require shifting the SSE station about 100 m south from its presently proposed location (that is mostly north of the SRT corridor).
Diverting the SmartTrack monies to Scarborough is out of question. Much of those funds is the provincial investment to upgrade the rail corridors, which would happen with or without SmartTrack. Eglinton West LRT is another chunk that's totally unrelated to Scarborough.
In theory, one can argue for using the Sheppard East funds (just a bit over 1 billion) in the way you proposed, as well as diverting the cost of two new SmartTrack stations along the Uxbridge Sub: Lawrence East and Finch East. Not sure how far would that advance the subway beyond STC, even if the City Council and the province supported that.
nfitz
Superstar
Yes. So presumably about 26,000 boardings.
? Says it goes up to 27,100. Or about 54,200 rider using the station compared to your 52,000 now.
Odd though there's no increase though ... could be a few things. The model might not know about to move a lot of the Islington buses to Kipling.
The model might have RER-like service on the Milton Line by 2031, which would encourage many from Kipling to take the RER to Dundas West or Union. Or who knows, Liberty Village station on the Downtown line.
nfitz
Superstar
LOL, looks like Scarborians are figuring out the subway plan is shafting them!
Scarborough residents question why subway plan gives them just one new stop
Critics shout down staff and local Councillor Glenn De Baeremaeker as they challenge wisdom of replacing five existing Scarborough RT stops with one subway stop.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...subway-plan-gives-them-just-one-new-stop.html
Scarborough residents question why subway plan gives them just one new stop
Critics shout down staff and local Councillor Glenn De Baeremaeker as they challenge wisdom of replacing five existing Scarborough RT stops with one subway stop.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...subway-plan-gives-them-just-one-new-stop.html
Sakraycore
Active Member
Once again...the Star and reporter @JENNIFER PAGLIARO. What a joke. No actual news contained inside.
nfitz
Superstar
Not sure what you mean. I saw lots of news. And it's good for once to hear what real people think, rather than developers, politicians, and transit geeks.
pman
Senior Member
Agreed. I also thought it was interesting that Councillor de Baeremaeker once again cast the debate in terms of downtown vs. Scarborough identity politics instead of by-the-numbers transit planning with some regard for costs and benefits.
amnesiajune
Senior Member
It sounds like TTCRiders just flooded the room with their members and supporters.