Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[OneCity]

Can you share the poll methodology, and what exactly is garbage about it?

You don't need us to tell you why its garbage, the Star will tell you all we need to know. The likely reason they add this disclaimer in here is so they can get sued up a$$ for being negligent. Certainly not by choice.
Enjoy.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...nts-back-lrt-but-only-slightly-poll-says.html

"Forum conducted the Scarborough transit poll on Nov. 29 and 30 using an interactive voice response telephone survey. Results are considered accurate plus or minus three percentage points, 19 times out of 20. The results for just Scarborough respondents are considered less accurate."

What they do:
1. They ask specific questions with options crafted to ensure narrative is achieved
2. They Poll specific areas which they know will net a higher approval of narrative set out to achieve

As sad as it is, our polling is used as a Political tool to sway public opinion, not to inform the public.

 

[pstogios]

As sad as it is, our polling is used as a Political tool to sway public opinion, not to inform the public.

Could ya stop the Trump-style anti-media smear campaign? For chrissakes you just can't control yourself.

This entire thread has become the Coffey/OneCity/Trump soapbox. Mods, is this what we want UT to be about? One unhinged guy complaining to the world about how everyone is against him?

 

[micheal_can]

Raise your hand if you have a landline....

Most people do not have land lines, and will not be called. That is one way that the polls are skewed.

 

[OneCity]

" The results for just Scarborough respondents are considered less accurate."

It's certainly very disappointingly that a poll that directly affects Scarborough, is less accurate in Scarborough yet being broadcast to the entire GTA.

This exact poll has been used here to debate. It's tough enough being persoanlly attacked for talking about the slant and bias which doesn't require a legal disclaimer and is very clear to alot of people who are on the oppposite end. It's really not that "crazy" and sad people are personally bullied and shamed for trying to discuss it.

Just put the question on the ballot and let's move on.

 

[innsertnamehere]

It's simple polling statistics. As the poll was citywide, the citywide numbers have a larger sample size than just Scarborough. The larger the sample size, the more accurate the polls are.

And the landline issue is very much so false. They call cells as well, I've done a few forum polls on my cell phone before.

 

[amnesiajune]

Can you share the poll methodology, and what exactly is garbage about it?

How each option was explained. Like I said, the poll compares the LRT's price from 2013 to the SSE's current price, and states one of the benefits of the LRT (more stops) without stating any of the subway's benefits. That skews the poll's results heavily towards the LRT.

Raise your hand if you have a landline....

Most people do not have land lines, and will not be called. That is one way that the polls are skewed.

Pollsters call cell phones nowadays.

 

[OneCity]

It's simple polling statistics. As the poll was citywide, the citywide numbers have a larger sample size than just Scarborough. The larger the sample size, the more accurate the polls are.

And the landline issue is very much so false. They call cells as well, I've done a few forum polls on my cell phone before.

Somewhat valid but a poll regarding Scarborough should have a sample size when ensures equal accuracy. When accuracy is important that statement leaves alot of open room

The issue here is the narrow option question they were asking to create a specific headline.

 

[Rainforest]

Don't forget we had a poll in December, that said people in Scarborough favoured the LRT over the subway. A lot favoured subway, but more wanted the LRT.

So if we really wanted to support the people in Scarborough, we'd build LRT not subway.

The poll question was flawed in a way to solicit a pro-LRT response from people who do not follow the transit debate closely.

 

[Rainforest]

"provide an overdue voice for Scarborough..." - which is fine but they ignore a large number of Scarborough residents who are not supportive of the subway plan, who feel it's not the best use of limited transit funds, who feel that the decision was not made with objective evidence. You dismissed Scarborough Transit Action as a "broken record special interest group", even though they are also from Scarborough. Both sides have a lot of fence-mending to do.

Obviously, there exists a variety of opinions on this matter. But the fact that almost all councillors from Scarborough support the subway option, is a reliable indicator that the majority of their voters prefer the subway.

If the voters wanted more LRTs with more stops, but retaining the transfer at Kennedy, then the councillors would quickly change their opinions in favor of LRT.

 

[Rainforest]

Could ya stop the Trump-style anti-media smear campaign? For chrissakes you just can't control yourself.

This entire thread has become the Coffey/OneCity/Trump soapbox. Mods, is this what we want UT to be about? One unhinged guy complaining to the world about how everyone is against him?

At least, OneCity is posting on the subject of transit.

You, on the other hand, pulled the new POTUS into this thread. And that guy certainly had no relation whatsoever with the Toronto transit matters.

 

[Voltz]

Obviously, there exists a variety of opinions on this matter. But the fact that almost all councillors from Scarborough support the subway option, is a reliable indicator that the majority of their voters prefer the subway.

If the voters wanted more LRTs with more stops, but retaining the transfer at Kennedy, then the councillors would quickly change their opinions in favor of LRT.

The voters were lied to about subways and LRT.

And as was once explained by councillor GDB in this video at 9:08, councillors are just taking the easy way out.

 

[Rainforest]

The voters were lied to about subways and LRT.

And as was once explained by councillor GDB in this video at 9:08, councillors are just taking the easy way out.

The pro-subway team is not always truthful, we all know that.

Still, few voters form their opinion based on what they heard from their Councillor. It is the councillors who are interested in the voters' preferences and promote them or at least appear to promote them. Not one way around.

There was plenty of information and arguments pro and against, presented by both sides of the debate. If the voters remain in favor of subway, it means that the sizeable group of voters who care at all decided that subway is actually better for them.

 

[Voltz]

The pro-subway team is not always truthful, we all know that.

Still, few voters form their opinion based on what they heard from their Councillor. It is the councillors who are interested in the voters' preferences and promote them or at least appear to promote them. Not one way around.

There was plenty of information and arguments pro and against, presented by both sides of the debate. If the voters remain in favor of subway, it means that the sizeable group of voters who care at all decided that subway is actually better for them.

If one side was clearly lying, it was the subway side, they went as far as to cherry pick lines from an old, outdated and incomplete report from the '80's about the Sheppard Subway which time had already proven was wildly inaccurate.

And there was more garbage like that line about subways lasting longer, roads being ripped up for the SRT extension, LRT doesn't work in the snow, LRT is just like St Clair or the current SRT, not enough capacity, private sector this or that, unions ect... Not even counting was the Ford bros were spewing.

You make it sound like there was some rational and factual debate, that was not the case at all.

 

[APTA-2048]

least, OneCity is posting on the subject of transit.

Sorry, but rehashing a persecution complex and media conspiracy is not what I'd call wholesome or rational discussion. Advocate for the subway, sure, but don't look completely out to lunch doing it. Other pro-subway members seem to be able to do that.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Obviously, there exists a variety of opinions on this matter. But the fact that almost all councillors from Scarborough support the subway option, is a reliable indicator that the majority of their voters prefer the subway.

If the voters wanted more LRTs with more stops, but retaining the transfer at Kennedy, then the councillors would quickly change their opinions in favor of LRT.

People's minds can change. And that support is obviously for political reasons as well.