coffey1
Active Member
It could be said building any legacy subway line has always been a waste to buy votes. Anyhow. If they dont fix Sheppard, fund SMLRT, they will have mine and many other residents Subway votes.
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It could be said building any legacy subway line has always been a waste to buy votes. Anyhow. If they dont fix Sheppard, fund SMLRT, they will have mine and many other residents Subway votes.
sixrings
Senior Member
You should move if you feel slighted. Scarborough residents are often trying to paint it as if they live in a third world country. Many parts of Toronto don't have subways stopping at their door steps
crs1026
Superstar
I understand the frustration, but it's time to make peace with what Lastman did to us all, not just Scarboro. The self-serving boosterism that won him the Sheppard Subway deserves to go down in Toronto history as the most costly travesty of this city's civic government - far worse than anything the Fords ever did. But, other than naming our next Island ferry boat after him (read up on what Sam McBride did in his day, he was no saint) we gotta get past that and move forward.
In fairness, had the Sheppard subway been built end-to-end as originally proposed, we'd probably love it, and it would be well used. Harris and McGuinty get the blame for that, not Mel. In its present form, it needs to be converted to LRT, and extended in both directions. I don't accept the argument that this can't be done for a reasonable price.
That idea gets raised every so often, and it's plain dumb. So Etobicrokans don't feel offended when the powers that be shoot it down. Sherway is building a honking big parking garage, and all the trophy wives who want to shop there prefer to drive their BMW SUV down and let the Valets park it for them. There is no reason to build an LRT to Sherway, and we know it.
The difference with Scarboro is - SRT is already there, and it's not a bad connection to Scarboro Town Center (which is not a very useful destination, IMHO). Again, we can agree that Davis foisted a dumb technology and routing on Scarboro, but let's move forward. Keep the part that works (the basic infrastructure), replace ITCS with plain reliable old LRT, and let's talk about how we can spend the remaining money from the Subway budget in a constructive manner. Scarboro deserves the full subway budget, just don't spend it on a subway when we could make better use out of it - in Scarboro.
You got me with that one, but I'm fully in favour of building one, all the way to Pickering. Linking Eglinton GO with Kennedy Subway seems so obvious. Then, build one or two north-south lines also. Transit City was on that - so in fairness the love was there, it just never came to be.
- Paul
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At this point, my phasing for Scarborough would be:
1) Focus on double-tracking and electrification of the Stouffville corridor. Build stations at Ellesmere and Lawrence East, and then extend all STC-bound bus routes to the new RER station at Ellesmere. This would allow the SRT to be shut down completely, and would allow the corridor to repurposed for express tracks for the Stouffville RER corridor.
2) Complete the Eglinton LRT to Kennedy. Obviously, 1 and 2 can be done at the same time, and one may be completed slightly before the other.
3) Rebuild the SRT elevated structure and extend it to Malvern, to allow it to run RER vehicles. Naturally, Ellesmere would cease to be the terminus of many bus routes, as the line would be extended further into Scarborough.
4) Build the SELRT and convert the Sheppard Subway to use LRT technology. This can be done by shutting down half the platform and lowering it, switching the tracks and power systems to LRT, and then lowering the other half. The SELRT would have a spur to STC via McCowan.
1) Focus on double-tracking and electrification of the Stouffville corridor. Build stations at Ellesmere and Lawrence East, and then extend all STC-bound bus routes to the new RER station at Ellesmere. This would allow the SRT to be shut down completely, and would allow the corridor to repurposed for express tracks for the Stouffville RER corridor.
2) Complete the Eglinton LRT to Kennedy. Obviously, 1 and 2 can be done at the same time, and one may be completed slightly before the other.
3) Rebuild the SRT elevated structure and extend it to Malvern, to allow it to run RER vehicles. Naturally, Ellesmere would cease to be the terminus of many bus routes, as the line would be extended further into Scarborough.
4) Build the SELRT and convert the Sheppard Subway to use LRT technology. This can be done by shutting down half the platform and lowering it, switching the tracks and power systems to LRT, and then lowering the other half. The SELRT would have a spur to STC via McCowan.
44 North
Senior Member
I think this is interesting. But ultimately I think it's necessary to connect Scarb Centre with rapid transit (whether as light metro, lrt, or subway). Despite its reputation, it's still a longstanding centre with numerous jobs, residents, and anchors. As it stands Stouffville is the second least-used GO line, and even with RER it will probably remain that way. And if we're to branch it in order to service SC and Malvern, it might be too infrequent to be of much use. As well, it's looking like RER will not be so much a 'surface subway' - but a more premium GO-type service. I know TOry is promising a single TTC token for Stouffville RER (aka SmrtTrack East), but I doubt that will ever happen.
Personally I fully support elevated-type solutions if it means big savings. But all the images the Prov has been teasing the public with about RER is showing a bilevel. I don't want to say a high speed 2-storey behemoth 30ft off the ground is a non-starter, but I think it might be pushing the political viability of elevated solutions. Though perhaps I could be wrong, and we will in fact end up with sleeker single level trains.
I'm working on the assumption that the frequency on the common section of the Stouffville line (~Ellesmere to LSE) would be doubled, not halved for each branch. That would still be more than adequate frequency to meet the ridership, especially if a special 'shuttle' is implemented from Malvern to Kennedy to boost frequencies on that stretch.
I find it hard to reconcile that statement with the fact that Metrolinx is planning on building something much like that along the Barrie corridor through the Junction. The SRT guideway is a far less 'sensitive' residential area than the Junction is.
44 North
Senior Member
Yeah, I guess. I hope that project warms people up to any benefits of elevated structures. And do you think it's at all possible to connect the Stouffville line to the CP corridor, and if so perhaps that could be a decent way of branching the Stouffville line and bringing RER service to NE Scarboro? I was thinking about this fantasy map I made last year, which was to utilize the SRT guideway to bring a new Crosstown East route to SC. But if it were to fully terminate at Scarb Centre, I think another means like a Stouffville RER branch using CP could be used to reach Malvern and eventually north Pickering. So Scarb would still get RT, but also benefit from RER. I dunno, just an idea.
coffey1
Active Member
Sure we all pay financially but Scarborough commuters should never have to pay for this double standard by having an unnecessary transfer. It's insanity that outsiders think this is acceptable. Its not.
ndawgg
Active Member
LNahid2000
Senior Member
I don't understand why people complain about the SRT transfer so much. These complainers should go to those "world class" cities with their amazing subway systems and actually use them. Some of these systems have same direction transfers that are WAY more complex than the transfer at Kennedy Station.
coffey1
Active Member
Good one Troll! A Ford would never support LRT
Anyone who seriously thinks that it reasonable to build short subways stubs & connect a different technology in the same direction obviously has no use for the line or has no respect for others.
Get over Ford. If Transit City was designed & funded effectively there would be no issue & people in Scarborough would have fought for Sheppard in droves. If we convert the Sheppard subway the LRT will be supported
coffey1
Active Member
The big issue is the Sheppard transfer. NO WORLD CLASS CITY would build that nonsense
The SLRT transfer hate is just Scarborough's political rebottle to the disrespect for funding and Sheppard. If we don't design & fund properly don't expect support. And we might as well build subways instead of a patchy LRT network.
Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
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LNahid2000
Senior Member
I agree that the Sheppard transfer is stupid, and that Sheppard should be converted to LRT and extended in both directions. But this has nothing to do with the SRT replacement.
The other option is to have the Sheppard transfer be a Hong Kong style cross platform timed transfer, where both trains come in at the same time and people just cross the platform to transfer. Then it doesn't even really feel like a transfer. But I doubt the TTC could pull that off.
Rainforest
Senior Member
Not true. The ridership forecast for subway is higher, even if we take the TTC's projection of 9,500 pphpd at peak. The forecast for SLRT is below 8,000 pphpd even though SLRT option is longer and has more stops.