Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[Duck]

The refurb would look much better than the 1980s-style striped design.

Disagree 1000%, I hate this new paint scheme so much. UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH puke puke pukeeeeeee

 

[Duck]

Thanks drum I already knew about all that, I was trying to be sarcastic but guess it didnt come off too well.

If Bombardier really wanted to, they could re-start production of these cars but obviously the TTC would have to pay a very high cost for that as they would be the only ones who would purchase them. There would be very little point in doing so as the Mark 1 technology is very out of date and they would have been operating 40 year old technology if they went down that road.

...You mean kind of like how they bought their own custom Streetcars?

I am so sick and tired of hearing "Bombardier doesn't make them anymore". Bombardier (and any company) will make *anything* if you really want them to.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I'm of the opposite opinion, I'd like it if the line colour and symbol was applied to all trains. (Yes I'm aware they move trains between lines currently). I'm not sure about a complete solid colour wrap as it's a bit much, and I don't like the station names along the top, but it's far better than the incredibly dull stainless steel of every other train. The TTC is usually hopeless at livery. Also this really makes the TTC logo look more shit than usual.

The TTC livery on the LFLRV is beautiful. I don't get how anyone could call it shit.

This line 3 livery, however, is shit. It doesn't represent the TTC brand at all and looks like something out of an amusement park ride.

 

[P23]

...You mean kind of like how they bought their own custom Streetcars?

I am so sick and tired of hearing "Bombardier doesn't make them anymore". Bombardier (and any company) will make *anything* if you really want them to.

The flexity streetcars are a model they offer to many cities with allowance for custom options like gauge. It's not anywhere close to the same thing as building a replica of a decades old vehicle for a single line in a single city.

 

[P23]

The TTC livery on the LFLRV is beautiful. I don't get how anyone could call it shit.

This line 3 livery, however, is shit. It doesn't represent the TTC brand at all and looks like something out of an amusement park ride.

The streetcar livery is adequate, and only because they had people outside the organization give them feedback on it. If you want quality livery check out Montreal's new trains.

 

[aquateam]

The streetcar livery is adequate, and only because they had people outside the organization give them feedback on it. If you want quality livery check out Montreal's new trains.

I would, if any of them were in service.

But in general, Montreal tends to do better with livery. The buses match with the signage, and it's nice to see consistent graphic design.

 

[the lemur]

I understand that refreshing them cosmetically helps to convey the message that they're refurbished, but I'm not sold on the colour of the line being used. Definitely not the station names on the cars. I'd almost prefer them to just re-do the existing colours, even if the logo disappears.

 

[BurlOak]

Are Mark II cars compatible with Mark I track, etc.? Is there a transit authority somewhere disposing of cars the RT could use?

1. Are Mark II cars compatible with Mark I track, etc.?

Mostly yes for tracks, train width, signals, etc.
Mark II are 6" taller - and can't handle as tight turns. Mark II cannot handle the Kennedy curve. I think think they will fit height wise in the Ellesmere tunnel. The Ellesmere tunnel radius is the outstanding issue that I have yet to confirm 100%. Mark II being longer has a larger sweep as it goes around a curve. I have read conflicting things that either this means that Mark II do not fit in the tunnel, or that they may encroach on the side clearance but will still fit (and some discretion can be used as to whether the reduction is acceptable). Until I see the actual tunnel size and see (or do) the calculation, I am still not convince that it will not fit in this tunnel.

2. Is there a transit authority somewhere disposing of cars the RT could use?
Vancouver had some vehicles that they are rehabbing. I am not sure if Toronto made a real attempt to acquire these - the story that Vancouver offerered to sell them for the new cost of a MarkII train seems like a myth.

 

[smallspy]

And yet if they went and simply replaced the 28 existing cars, with 58 new Mark I vehicles for $290 million instead of the 44 longer Mark II vehicles they decided to buy for $170 million, we wouldn't be in this mess. And would have been completed 5 years ago!

That $290mil would have been on top of all of the other costs with the line (lengthening stations, new yard, etc.) and still would have resulted in having an orphan fleet that will never operate well in the winter. The choice to modify the line to handle LRTs may have cost more up front, but in the long run was the smarter choice.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[wopchop]

...You mean kind of like how they bought their own custom Streetcars?

I am so sick and tired of hearing "Bombardier doesn't make them anymore". Bombardier (and any company) will make *anything* if you really want them to.

This is a major oversimplification. Any manufacturer will make anything for you, yes, but if they have to retool their factory to do it, they you can better believe that that cost to do so is being passed along to the customer.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

This is a major oversimplification. Any manufacturer will make anything for you, yes, but if they have to retool their factory to do it, they you can better believe that that cost to do so is being passed along to the customer.

As my engineer friend likes to say, "anything is possible with enough time and money".

 

[rbt]

That $290mil would have been on top of all of the other costs with the line (lengthening stations, new yard, etc.) and still would have resulted in having an orphan fleet that will never operate well in the winter.

And in 2040 we would have had the same decision to make again. Convert to LRT at $COST or buy special vehicles at $COST-$LITTLE_BIT.

 

[nfitz]

That $290mil would have been on top of all of the other costs with the line (lengthening stations, new yard, etc.) and still would have resulted in having an orphan fleet that will never operate well in the winter. The choice to modify the line to handle LRTs may have cost more up front, but in the long run was the smarter choice.

And yet look where we are today.

Yes, in addition to the $290 million was $170 mill for lengthening stations, expanded yard, rehabbing the line, etc. So $460 million total. Let's see how much we end up spending.

 

[JasonParis]

I'm not too fussed either way as they won't even run for a decade with the new livery. I do like the station names right on the train though. It reminds me of a Tfl London bus route actually.

 

[Duck]

I'm not too fussed either way as they won't even run for a decade with the new livery. I do like the station names right on the train though. It reminds me of a Tfl London bus route actually.

That is the worst part about it. As if to imply people will forget where they're going. How stupid and condescending. So not futuristic. This new colour scheme looks like a clown's dildo.