Johnny Au
Senior Member
Atlanta also has striped subway trains and they sure look as if it belonged in the 1980s.
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44 North
Senior Member
$132M seems pretty steep for a refurb that is only to last a decade or less. And according to Neptis, we could buy a brand new fleet of Mark 1 trains for a similar price:
http://www.neptis.org/publications/transit-city-lrt-schemes/chapters/what-wrong-schemes
nfitz
Superstar
That's not the just the refurb budget for the fleet. That's also to deal with the track, stations, power ... for the next decade.
Though since when did we take Neptis seriously?
Amare
Senior Member
I would be interested in knowing who still manufactures Mark 1 trains because this is this first i've heard of this. Did some manufacturer suddenly decide to start making them again under our noses? Maybe it was Boeing or Airbus because i know they must be itching at the chance to build these...
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
This is an abomination of design.
drum118
Superstar
No ones makes Mark 1 cars and they were built in Millhaven, Ontario by UTDC, now Bombardier.
Only Mark II around as production cars and that may cease in the coming years
The Mark I for TTC were built 1983-85
44 North
Senior Member
Good point. Although I’ll give them credit for acknowledging Skytrain. The technology does have its merits, and shouldn’t be disregarded entirely.
If you flip through that report I linked to, Neptis claims that it should be relatively simple to tender a contract to Bombardier for them to assemble updated Mark 1 cars. But I’m starting to doubt how truthful that is. And as Nfitz mentions, I think there’s a consensus on this forum that we should take what Neptis says with a grain of salt.
***
I traced over the diagram provided by the TorontoStar and made the vehicle red. Looks a bit dated, and I think the original striped design looks better.
Attachments
Amare
Senior Member
Thanks drum I already knew about all that, I was trying to be sarcastic but guess it didnt come off too well.
If Bombardier really wanted to, they could re-start production of these cars but obviously the TTC would have to pay a very high cost for that as they would be the only ones who would purchase them. There would be very little point in doing so as the Mark 1 technology is very out of date and they would have been operating 40 year old technology if they went down that road.
howl
Active Member
That $132 milllion needs to added to the ledger for the subway extension. The TTC was hoping to shut the SRT down next year so they could replace it with the Crosstown. Now they have to keep it running for another decade.
nfitz
Superstar
It is part of the ledger for the subway extension. It's part of the city portion of the subway, and it's payment is coming out of that tax surcharge we are now paying.
smallspy
Senior Member
That part of the Neptis Report, like in so many other sections of it, is out to lunch with their dollar values.
Back when the SRT was first starting to run into its capacity and reliability issues around 2001, the TTC asked Bombardier about the possibility of either restarting the Mark I production line, or producing a shortened version of the Mark II that would fit the existing system. Bombardier quoted them a price of over $5mil per car.
The TTC, understandably so, told them "we'll think about it and get back to you" and quietly forgot about that idea.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
nfitz
Superstar
And yet if they went and simply replaced the 28 existing cars, with 58 new Mark I vehicles for $290 million instead of the 44 longer Mark II vehicles they decided to buy for $170 million, we wouldn't be in this mess. And would have been completed 5 years ago!
Tossing out $120 million away to buy more Mark I cars might have seem foolish (though it would have cut down on the $190 million to rebuild the Ellesmere curve, rehab the line, and extend the stations) - but we are already out $207 million with little to show - with $billions to come for this new subway.
It's this absurd ability to delay sensible project because there might be a better way of doing it that costs us. We're in the same boat now, where we deferred the $467 million cost of Phase 2 of the Eglinton line from JWeston to Renforth and now are going to spend $millions studying heavy rail on that corridor, which we wouldn't be doing, if we'd simply have built the LRT when everyone was behind it. I wouldn't be surprised if something similar still happens on Sheppard East.
the lemur
Senior Member
Are Mark II cars compatible with Mark I track, etc.? Is there a transit authority somewhere disposing of cars the RT could use?
P23
Active Member
I'm of the opposite opinion, I'd like it if the line colour and symbol was applied to all trains. (Yes I'm aware they move trains between lines currently). I'm not sure about a complete solid colour wrap as it's a bit much, and I don't like the station names along the top, but it's far better than the incredibly dull stainless steel of every other train. The TTC is usually hopeless at livery. Also this really makes the TTC logo look more shit than usual.
P23
Active Member
Enough with the goddamn stripes! Lol, but seriously, they're even more dated than swoops.