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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

^How do you figure that? The incredible spacing east of Don Mills makes me question if it'd really exceed or come close to 20 mins, to Don Mills really is 7 mins by the way. And what extra transfer? The interchange at Sheppard-Yonge is superior to the one at B-Y since most of the YUS station is accessible to the Sheppard Stn. And since YUS is the gateway to downtown why would someone want to interchange again at Bloor?

The point to all this remains, Scarborough putting all their eggs in one proverbial basket when other nodes in the area still would get shafted is why nothing's being done. C'mon Scarb, do the unselfish thing and admit a reno and expansion to Sheppard East running back to Fairview is the best solution for Scarborough since:

a) Sheppard cannot support a subway, it's been proven.
b) Finch, a km north, as you've stated, can but would never
be built if the Sheppard Subway notion continues to exist.
c) Areas beyond STC gain no benefit commuter travel wise.
d) BD is aligned to run along Eglinton, which is in dire straights
for a subway. This would not only kickstart subways along
the entire corridor but serve the heavily neglected
southeast which is upto 45 mins away from the subway.
e) If we already know all this for a fact why are we
disagreeing and holding out for 2-bit... er, stop extension
that'll likely be the final subway this one-third of Toronto
will ever see:\ ?
 
"^How do you figure that? The incredible spacing east of Don Mills makes me question if it'd really exceed or come close to 20 mins, to Don Mills really is 7 mins by the way."

Don Mills is not halfway - it's about 5km from Yonge but there's almost 8km to go to STC, and there'd be 7 stops.
 
Don Mills is not halfway
Click to expand...

Yes you're right, Don Mills' halfway between Yonge and Agincout GO, not STC. See though I admit wrong, why can't you and agree Sheppard conversion to RT is more logical than SRT conversion to subway? I'm sure the two billion squandered on a stub that serves less people than the SRT did could create a ring of RTs spanning most of central Scarborough. Meanwhile the BD line makes a short excursion (when funding arrives :rolleyes ) east to UTSC. I'm even cutting short my station list: Danforth, Bellamy, Markham, Guildwood, Morningside and UTSC. See 6 where there'd be 10, tell me I'm not reasonable.
 
I'm still of the belief that Scarborough's RT should be replaced with a subway and that this should have been done before the Spadina extension. I'm all for light-rail fanning-out all over Scarborough, but I think you need to get the people to Scarborough Centre first with high-order transit.
Click to expand...

I agree with that. You need the subway to backbone the boro's transit grid, which then can be accompanied by excellent streetcar lines to feed it.
 
I agree with that. You need the subway to backbone the boro's transit grid, which then can be accompanied by excellent streetcar lines to feed it.
Click to expand...

Except it's not really a backbone if it only covers previously covered ground (minus the Ellesmere-Midland area and an area on-the-rise just east of the current LES). Now if the conversion were coming along with an extension further northeast, say Sheppard-Markham, I'd be more in favor of it. I think more it's more important to introduce new subways to different areas, my bias, the heavily trafficked Eglinton East-Kingston corridor. Other transit improvements would include streetcars along lower Kingston (south of Markham), Markham, Lawrence East and the Finch Hydro Corridor, that's it. SRT Conversion only is not good enough.
 
No, that could be covered via feeder streetcar.

The ridership on a streetcar line going up into markham could be upgraded later on if VIVA upgrades their hwy7 line to subway in 30-40 years from now.

But the current SRT is a perfect case of building LRT ridership for a future subway line. The only issue here is not building the subway when the ridership has been built up to the next stage. Now, if the TTC could photocopy money, then you could build subway lines everywhere, including to the ZOO without thinking of the scarcity of transit dollars and needy projects accross the GTA.
 
Roch looking at Scarborough Transit ridership today there's a stark contrast between STC and the Eglinton East-Kingston Corridor. In fact the destination bound figures are higher for Malvern than STC. Everything points back to STC's transit hub which would rightfully so dissipate after an extesion east be it subway or merely the SRT.

To paraphrase the critics of the York U-VCC line, yes subways are sexy but realistically speaking will only end up impeding the entire system. The sooner we accpet RT/LRT, the more parts of the city are connected. The only place BD is bound for should be Morningside, with the RT remaining the permanent link to STC from Kennedy.
 
The SRT should be replaced with a subway so it can be used as part of the backbone of the system. Without it being a subway the SCC can't be an effective transit hub because it forces additional transfers at Kennedy. With the real backbone ending at Kennedy all the routes might as well feed into Kennedy but that means a much longer trip. A BRT, LRT, tram, regular bus to Malvern from SCC provides poor connections to downtown because of the additional connection required at Kennedy. SCC is centralized in northern Scarborough so if both subways reached that point the trips to serve the rest of Scarborough could be much shorter than trying to run them all to Kennedy which should only be used for connections to south Scarborough.
 
^Again, no problem with STC per se, it's just not what it's hyped up to be. I fail to see how running Sheppard to Meadowvale is a bad thing. STC would still be served twice, with the BD line at Sheppard/McCowan and the SRT at Sheppard/Markham (Yes if you want to run BD in a new alignment, you may as may keep the SRT and run it into Malvern, allowing the BD-McCowan line passage into the 905). This would be a win for everyone as opposed to dead-ending two subway lines et eternitium at STC.
 
So! The pricing for the extension and restoration is out, and it's $1.279-billion. Incidentally, the cost in the report of replacing the whole damned thing with a subway extension was $1.220 billion.
 
$1.28 Billion!!!

Your taxpayer's money at work! That's what you get when you hire the guy to fix the problematic line he helped to install in the first place, though.

It really should have been a subway.
 
Here's what I posted on the Steve Munro blog:

Now that the Scarborough RT extension and renovation project at $1.279-billion will cost more than the extension of the subway at $1.22-billion, wouldn’t it make much more sense to go the latter route? This extension has been on the books for years, and originated when the massive Palmerston Place office development was planned for Markham and Sheppard. That project is long-dead, and there is no obvious need for rapid transit to that intersection. Malvern residents will still have to take a connecting bus from Neilson and Finch, creating an additional transfer if they are going to Scarborough Town Centre. The extension will do nothing for the many SRT riders east along Ellesmere or north in the McCowan corridor.

The subway extension will benefit all of these riders, as it will allow them to eliminate the Kennedy transfer and the reliability issues surrounding the RT. It will also eliminate the need for a separate maintenance staff, vehicle yard, and fleet for the orphan SRT technology.

The eliminated stations at Midland and Ellesmere are right at the bottom in terms of ridership on the entire TTC network, while Lawrence East users primarily transfer from the bus and would benefit from the subway extension.

In the original study, the reason for the subway extension’s dismissal was that the cost would preclude other transit projects. With MoveOntario funding, this is no longer an issue.

The RT extension and replacement’s benefits could instead be delivered for minimal additional cost by replacing the RT with a subway and simply adding a branch of the Sheppard East LRT south to Scarborough Centre.
 
I see Steve Munro has replied, completely missing your point.

The fact is that we can keep a white elephant on CPR and benefit people living north of Progress and east of McCowan, or, for less money, we can build a subway extension to STC that would benefit people living north of Eglinton and east of Kennedy.
 
Holy....

I hate politics sometimes. Yeah for that money it's much better to extend the Shepperd subway line!
 
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