News   Jul 17, 2024
Side-by-Side The Davisville and Uovo Top Off on Yonge in Midtown
 545     0 
News   Jul 17, 2024
Midtown Resubmission Adds Height, Density, Matches Adjacent Proposal
 1.5K     2 
News   Jul 17, 2024
News Roundup for July 17, 2024
 640     0 

Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

In isolation, the Scarborough Subway makes perfect sense. But when looking at it as part of the whole network, its clearly an incredibly foolish decision.

For that $1 Billion we could have brought an LRT to Jane or built nearly two Waterfront West LRTs. Maybe even build the full Relief Line from Dundas West to Eglinton

Instead we're pouring yet another $1 Billion+ into the east end of the city. Because the Sheppard Subway, Sheppard LRT, Eglinton Crosstown and SRT weren't good enough for East Toronto.

There are other areas of the city that desperately need transit, but unfortunately the issues east of Yonge have sucked the air out of the room. It's fully understandable if anyone outside of Scarborough were absolutely livid about the construction of this subway.

And I'm sure the fact that the $7 Billion Relief Line probably won't be touching West Toronto will further insult these people (though this alignment is clearly the best)
 
Last edited:
mrxbombastic said:
The lrt was and always will be the better choice now.
Click to expand...

The LRT plan WAS the reason why the extra $1.5B was spent. The LRT plan is the reason that money is not available for other more useful projects. The proof is in the pudding.

Here's an analogy. Say I want to buy a new minivan. There is one for $18k, but it is a standard, with no air or power windows/locks. There is another one for $20k that has all the options we would need. I take my wife to look at the $18k one and tell her the only other option is to bye a really fancy one for $35k. She doesn't like the $18k car and so we buy the $35k one. She still doesn't know that the $20k car existed.
Who's fault is it that we spent $15k more than we should have?

And by the way, my main point was that Nenshi should not have commented because the planned SRT LRT implementation was nothing like anything that exists in Calgary.
 
BurlOak said:
The LRT plan WAS the reason why the extra $1.5B was spent. The LRT plan is the reason that money is not available for other more useful projects. The proof is in the pudding.
Click to expand...

Excuse me while I take some time to contemplate the insanity of this.

This makes no sense. The LRT word have been grade separated, multi carriage fast and 1.8b in total with Kennedy remodel factored in. So I don't know where you got your 20K analogy piece from.

The reason the extra $1.5B was spent is that council and province and Feds suddenly all got together and decided to place a big fat kiss on the ass of Scarborough for reasons beyond comprehension. I hesitate to even call them reasons.

While I don't care about the location if transit so much as it's best reflection of demand, if the next four years are spent kneeling down to any sort of Scarborough sense of unsubstantiated entitlement I can almost guarantee you people will actually protest. In the streets. With picket signs. I'll lead them.

For all the reason described recently here the LRT would have made more sense.

I will however agree the the Calgary LRT functions differently than the SRT.

My last point of inquisition is where Olivia Chow falls on this. Her position in this could mean a win or lose in the election if she runs.
 
BurlOak said:
Too bad Calgary Mayor Nenshi does not know the details about the Scarborough LRT.

- In Calgary, all LRT's go through the centre of the City.
- In Scarborough, the LRT would have been a 10km long line that forced 6,000 to 8,000 riders per hour to make a transfer to the subway.

It.
Click to expand...

Wow, we wouldn't want to do that would we. Too much for the heart to get up and move. Can you imagine those people transferring at St George or Yonge. They must be really out of shape
 
Last edited:
He difference is that we can prevent and eliminate the transfer, while we can't do that for st George.

I still think the biggest benefit of the subway is the lack of closure of the SRT for 3 years. That would have royally screwed things up.
 
I'm still not convinced the transfer elimination is worth an extra billion dollars.

Regards to the shutdown. Yes it will be painful, however if Sheppard was completed by now as it was scheduled to be, SRT customer could have opted for it instead. Its not open so such is. I expect dedicated BRT like system to be running down Kennedy and other major arterials as a backstop during construction.
 
At the end, LRT will always come out serving more people and going further distances, but it doesn't mean it's the right decision. Looking long term, eventually, it will become a subway. Why do things twice when you can do things right the first time?

In regards to the closure of the RT, it will be an horrid situation. The PPH of the SRT is currently 4000 according to TTC. If you supplement that by buses, that's about 73 buses needed. If each bus carries 55 people (according to steve murano), which means the frequency of the bus would need to be 1min 12 seconds? That's pretty much impossible. Where is TTC going to find an additional 73 buses from?
 
Also, where would the SRT shuttle buses pick up and drop off these passengers? Certainly not on the bus bays at Kennedy Station because they simply cannot handle additional people (especially during peak hours)
 
epcjay said:
At the end, LRT will always come out serving more people and going further distances, but it doesn't mean it's the right decision. Looking long term, eventually, it will become a subway. Why do things twice when you can do things right the first time?
Click to expand...

Because by the time the subway will actually be needed, none of us will be alive. And in the interim, there are a huge amount of operating and maintenance costs that will have to be borne, not just by us but also by our children.

Yonge Street wasn't built as a subway in 1891, and the 401 wasn't built 16 lanes wide in 1936. There is no need to do the same in Scarborough.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
epcjay said:
At the end, LRT will always come out serving more people and going further distances, but it doesn't mean it's the right decision. Looking long term, eventually, it will become a subway. Why do things twice when you can do things right the first time?

In regards to the closure of the RT, it will be an horrid situation. The PPH of the SRT is currently 4000 according to TTC. If you supplement that by buses, that's about 73 buses needed. If each bus carries 55 people (according to steve murano), which means the frequency of the bus would need to be 1min 12 seconds? That's pretty much impossible. Where is TTC going to find an additional 73 buses from?
Click to expand...
The transit guru's name is Steve Munro.
 
Juan_Lennon416 said:
Also, where would the SRT shuttle buses pick up and drop off these passengers? Certainly not on the bus bays at Kennedy Station because they simply cannot handle additional people (especially during peak hours)
Click to expand...

This is a a significant issue I don't doubt that. But many of us who have had to deal with BD line shutdowns during peak hours have been able to put up with it. That was for short periods of time though and I'm not suggesting a put up and shut up mentality but just saying that supposed the ttc made some enhancements at Kennedy in the short term to accommodate better the buses. Or some routes were redirected to Warden to free up bays at Kennedy.

Nothing here is impossible and though it may be uncomfortable I would argue it's a better choice.

And though its a moot point now. The staging of Sheppard lrt first and then srt shutdown would gave made a huge difference in addressing this.
 
The SRT replacement was first as it would have cost $120 million to extend its life long enough to last until the SELRT opened. We have now taken that option, but instead of waiting for the SELRT we are waiting for the subway replacement.

Thats actually kinda why the subway is relatively so expensive, there is roughly $300 million being spent to simply deal with the SRT, through life extension and demolition.
 
epcjay said:
At the end, LRT will always come out serving more people and going further distances, but it doesn't mean it's the right decision. Looking long term, eventually, it will become a subway. Why do things twice when you can do things right the first time?

In regards to the closure of the RT, it will be an horrid situation. The PPH of the SRT is currently 4000 according to TTC. If you supplement that by buses, that's about 73 buses needed. If each bus carries 55 people (according to steve murano), which means the frequency of the bus would need to be 1min 12 seconds? That's pretty much impossible. Where is TTC going to find an additional 73 buses from?
Click to expand...

So what did people do before the RT was built?
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top